Stay Granted: Lockout On Til June, Breakthrough Reported

[Brandon494]

You have to factor in injuries though. You lose your starting QB first game of the season and that fucks up the whole team's wallet. All we need is a rookie salary cap and everything else should be kept the same unless the owners can prove they are losing money. It's a reason they don't want to show their books.

[ThunderDan]

At some point you have to concede that the owners are the ones making it possible for you to SEE those studs compete and bust their asses for you to watch and enjoy.

The owner of Wendy's doesn't cook the burger either, but s/he negotiates the deals that get the cow killed, ground and delivered to your local store. The franchise built the model to follow. The builders built the building its sold in....so in conclusion, most of the profits should go to the guy who threw it on the grill.

I understand where you are coming from but I think you are missing one important issue.

There are some jobs that require skill sets that few poeple can actually learn. No matter how hard you try you can't take a 5'10", 180lb man and stick him in at OT in the NFL.

You see this in surgeons, entertainers, athletes, artisans etc...

[mraynrand]

That sounds like a personal problem that has nothing to do with why these players should have to take a paycut.

Where did you ever get the notion that the players were going to have to take a paycut?

[mraynrand]

At some point you have to concede that the owners are the ones making it possible for you to SEE those studs compete and bust their asses for you to watch and enjoy.

The owner of Wendy's doesn't cook the burger either, but s/he negotiates the deals that get the cow killed, ground and delivered to your local store. The franchise built the model to follow. The builders built the building its sold in....so in conclusion, most of the profits should go to the guy who threw it on the grill.

I like your view, but I would modify it in this way. The players are like performers in Vegas. Sure, you could go somewhere else to see guys like Tony Bennett, etc. sing the hits, but you go to Vegas because it's glitzy, there's gambling, etc. The Hotel owners invest in the product and use guys like Tony Bennett as a draw. They pay him better than Joe Shmoe because he's better and has a following, but if the guy copped an attitude, they could get someone else and people would still show up. Jerry Jones wold be the guy who builds the massive pyramid and attracts huge crowds. He still does really well, but the Bill's owner would be the guy who builds a pretty basic hotel/casino and benefits from all the traffic Jones brings in - plus he doesn't have to pay the taxes Jones does. Bottom line: The owners build up the structure for the product on the field, and the players represent the best you can put on the field. They can be replaced, but not at the same level. Not only are they better than the next tier of players, but they have their own style and personality that would be missed until the next generation of players becomes known. That's why they should make more than the burger-flippers - and they do. Problem is, that too many of them want Tony Bennett and Wayne Newton compensation, when they're only performing at a Robert Goulet or Steve and Eydie Gorme level.

[sharpe1027]

The two sides disagree on the amount of money they should get. Everything thing is just a variation of this theme. Percentages, no percentages, salary cap, free agency, benefits, guaranteed expense budgeting, all just about how much money each side gets. Who is right? Both and neither. Who has the morale high ground? Both and neither.

You can argue about how the players are due because they are the product we pay to see. You can argue about how the owners are due because, well, they own the team and spur investment. Both points are correct, which is why they both get paid a crap ton of money. In the end, it's just how much money each side can get from the other. No more, no less.

[Lurker64]

All we need is a rookie salary cap and everything else should be kept the same unless the owners can prove they are losing money. It's a reason they don't want to show their books.

The problem is that once the 8th Circuit rules to rescind the injunction enjoining the lockout is "everything else should be kept the same" is entirely out the window. Once the 8th circuit preserves the lockout, the owners have leverage and what's the point of acquiring leverage if you're going to do it? Putting economic pressure on the parties you're negotiating with until they agree with you is a tried and true substitute for facts in labor negotiations. After all, most strikes are justified by "unfairness" which is something that can't be easily quantified.

So in terms of "old system with a rookie wage scale"? It's just not happening, and after the 8th Circuit rules the NFL will most likely have leverage, which means that the onus will be on the players to come to compromise so that a deal can get done. Remember, that the owners have moved on a lot of issues, while the players have moved on none. If the players are unwilling to move on any of the key issues now or after the 8th circuit rules, then we're missing football this year.

[ThunderDan]

The problem is that once the 8th Circuit rules to rescind the injunction enjoining the lockout is "everything else should be kept the same" is entirely out the window. Once the 8th circuit preserves the lockout, the owners have leverage and what's the point of acquiring leverage if you're going to do it? Putting economic pressure on the parties you're negotiating with until they agree with you is a tried and true substitute for facts in labor negotiations. After all, most strikes are justified by "unfairness" which is something that can't be easily quantified.

So in terms of "old system with a rookie wage scale"? It's just not happening, and after the 8th Circuit rules the NFL will most likely have leverage, which means that the onus will be on the players to come to compromise so that a deal can get done. Remember, that the owners have moved on a lot of issues, while the players have moved on none. If the players are unwilling to move on any of the key issues now or after the 8th circuit rules, then we're missing football this year.

Except then the MN judge will rule to keep the TV monies in escrow. At which point, HOPEFULLY, both sides will realize that they are in a no-win situation except to go back to the bargaining table and sit down and get this taken care of.

Goodell and Smith both need to shut up and get to work. As much "fun" as it is to call the other side out for being assholes. It really is counter-productive.

[ThunderDan]

The two sides disagree on the amount of money they should get. Everything thing is just a variation of this theme. Percentages, no percentages, salary cap, free agency, benefits, guaranteed expense budgeting, all just about how much money each side gets. Who is right? Both and neither. Who has the morale high ground? Both and neither.

You can argue about how the players are due because they are the product we pay to see. You can argue about how the owners are due because, well, they own the team and spur investment. Both points are correct, which is why they both get paid a crap ton of money. In the end, it's just how much money each side can get from the other. No more, no less.

The quicker both sides figure out that they can't live without the other the faster the deal gets done.

[Lurker64]

Except then the MN judge will rule to keep the TV monies in escrow. At which point, HOPEFULLY, both sides will realize that they are in a no-win situation except to go back to the bargaining table and sit down and get this taken care of.

Goodell and Smith both need to shut up and get to work. As much "fun" as it is to call the other side out for being assholes. It really is counter-productive.

The league can afford to sit out a lot longer without those TV monies than the players can, and just the point is that since the leverage of the lockout is unlikely to be lifted by the courts any time this year, the onus is on the players to move closer to the owners, not the other way around. If the NFLPA* leadership doesn't see this, and decides to try to pursue alternative litigation strategies to acquire leverage we are going to miss part of (or all of) the upcoming season.

Best play for the NFLPA now is to take whatever the best terms they can get out of the NFL in the next month or so, and if it's so bad for them they should strike somewhere down the line.

[swede]

Best play for the NFLPA now is to take whatever the best terms they can get out of the NFL ...and if it's so bad for them they should strike somewhere down the line.

Wait...I thought you had to be a union in order to strike.

[Deputy Nutz]

Yea they build the business but without these players where the fuck would these owners be? You can't just hire some random fuck off the street to do what these guys do. That's how its different then flipping some burgers. Do you have a job? I want to see how you would react if you were making your business millions in revenue every year and they wanted to cut your pay even though your making them more money year after year. There is a reason we watch the NFL instead of arena football, and it's not because of the owners.

You really don't understand comparisons very well, do you?

[Deputy Nutz]

Fuck the owners!

The owners arent the ones that entertain me every sunday, they don't risk their bodies every snap, and they don't take years off their life by playing the game that we all love. These guys are the best athletes in the world and have made this the best sport in the country. NFL has been growing in revenue and popularity every year and now they want to cut the players salaries by 18%? Just another case of the rich being greedy. Just add a rookie salary cap and lets get these guys back on the field.

There are a lot of jobs out there that shorten the lives of the people that perform them and also hamper their quality of living, but guess what? You don't hear them bitching and complaining about their shorten life span and they make peanuts compared to professional football players. If you want me to list these job I will but I think you are smart enough to brain storm what occupations could be considered a hazard to an employees life quality.

There are a lot of reasons to support the players but whinnng about their lives and shorter life expectancy shouldn't be one of them. I played the game for twelve years, I am 32 years old and my body is all fucked up because of football and I have been out of it for almost 10 years. I never got paid a nickel but I ain't gonna complain about the sport I love when I get a hip replacement and a knee replacement ten years from now, that is just fucking life I would change it even if I could.

[Brandon494]

There are a lot of jobs out there that shorten the lives of the people that perform them and also hamper their quality of living, but guess what? You don't hear them bitching and complaining about their shorten life span and they make peanuts compared to professional football players. If you want me to list these job I will but I think you are smart enough to brain storm what occupations could be considered a hazard to an employees life quality.

There are a lot of reasons to support the players but whinnng about their lives and shorter life expectancy shouldn't be one of them. I played the game for twelve years, I am 32 years old and my body is all fucked up because of football and I have been out of it for almost 10 years. I never got paid a nickel but I ain't gonna complain about the sport I love when I get a hip replacement and a knee replacement ten years from now, that is just fucking life I would change it even if I could.

Just because they dont "bitch" about it doesnt make it right. Every season a player spends on an NFL roster, his life expectancy decreases by almost three years. The average American male lives to be almost 75. An NFL player, whose career lasts roughly four years on average, lives to be 55. I as well played the game for 10 years but neither of us played at the NFL level when you have 300 pound guys who can run 4.6 40s. Also did you play football as your job? Why would you be complaining about getting paid a nickel when you didnt get paid to play in the first place.

[Brandon494]

You really don't understand comparisons very well, do you?

I understand fine, that was just an shitty comparison. Kinda like you comparing playing high school football to the NFL.

[Freak Out]

I never got paid a nickel but I ain't gonna complain about the sport I love when I get a hip replacement and a knee replacement ten years from now, that is just fucking life I would change it even if I could.

Fuck you motherlicker. I'm going to complain because I'll be paying for it along with all the other hard working Americans that pay taxes......just so you freeloader football player types that end up on welfare can get medical treatment.