Hawk taking heat in Green Bay

[SkinBasket]

LMAO yea you show me AJ Hawks stats like a MLB making tackles is suppose to mean something. All those stats told me was his best season came when he was a rookie. The guy didn't cause one turnover this season and had 1.5 sacks. Bishop didn't have that great of a season either but at least he had 5 sacks, caused 2 turnovers, and had more solo tackles than Hawk had tackles well playing fewer games then Hawk last season.

Well, which is it? First you tell us stats don't mean anything, then you use a bunch of hand picked stats to try to make some kind of belabored, ass backward comparison between two players with different defensive responsibilities. You're funny.

[Brandon494]

Well, which is it? First you tell us stats don't mean anything, then you use a bunch of hand picked stats to try to make some kind of belabored, ass backward comparison between two players with different defensive responsibilities. You're funny.

You kept going on and on about how much stats mean so I gave you some stats and now your acting like they don't mean anything. You sir are the funny one!

[Bossman641]

What is the argument again?

My take, Hawk got too much credit last year and is receiving too much blame this year. I always thought the whole “Hawk is better with the headset thing” was a load of garbage last year. This year he wasn’t issue #1 with the defense, but he was among the worst defenders on a defense that couldn’t tackle for shit. I don’t see the point in cutting him, but Francois and Smith should be given every chance to pass him by.

There is always the caveat that Hawk does things that don’t show up in the box score, but that’s not cutting it for me anymore. I don’t need stats to tell me how bad Hawk looked trying to square up and tackle a RB in space or how he seemed to always be a step slow. The contract to Hawk always looked high, but now it looks awful.

[sharpe1027]

What is the argument again?

My take, Hawk got too much credit last year and is receiving too much blame this year. I always thought the whole “Hawk is better with the headset thing” was a load of garbage last year. This year he wasn’t issue #1 with the defense, but he was among the worst defenders on a defense that couldn’t tackle for shit. I don’t see the point in cutting him, but Francois and Smith should be given every chance to pass him by.

There is always the caveat that Hawk does things that don’t show up in the box score, but that’s not cutting it for me anymore. I don’t need stats to tell me how bad Hawk looked trying to square up and tackle a RB in space or how he seemed to always be a step slow. The contract to Hawk always looked high, but now it looks awful.

Much better than I could have said it.

[pbmax]

#3, Scheme. We saw less of they "psycho" defense this year, and more of the base 3-4 than the nickle that was used a lot last year. Our defense just seemed very vanilla and basic all year. Then when we realized we couldn't get any pressure, we tried blitzing more, which also didn't happen. One play in the Giants game that pissed me off beyond belief was when we brought 3 guys, dropped 8 into coverage, and Nicks was standing in the middle of the field wide ass open directly in between LB & S depths. What the hell? And it happened more than once, so again that brings me back to what are the coaches seeing and communicating to players on the field?

Less nickel because ROLB (and possibly DE) was inconsistent and Shields and Tramon tackled like the runner carried the plague (didn't help when Tramon got hurt). So they were getting burned in the run. Base then put Wood on the edge but then he was no help for Peprah in midfield. Also no Barnett or Chillar to help with TEs. In short, because he could not force the issue, Capers had to react to down and distance rather than dictate. Also, no Collins.

I also don't think Raji is as stout at NT as he is at 3 tech or even 5 tech DE. Raji did not hold square in the middle until the Giants playoff game. For the same reason, the Capers Eagle Okie that McGinn mentioned in preseason, with Raji at NT and Pickett at 3 tech might not have been such a grand idea. But there was a lot more of base this year because the opposing run game could run versus the nickel.

Call me stubborn, but if you can't stop third and long with eight in coverage a good percentage of the time, then perhaps you deserve to lose. That same coverage worked last year in 3rd and long and it worked versus the Giants twice that I recall and failed the same number of times (your Nicks reference being one).

What I don't know is the percentage that this scheme worked and if someone had trouble in it. Was the zone a problem for Shields? LB not deep enough in their drops? Its not like play action was fooling Peprah or the ILBs.

The truth here is that perhaps Thompson got stuck with no options. His extensions to Chillar and Barnett (and then Chillar's injury) made the whole ILB corp too expensive to keep. So you've got young guys and minimal coverage with the vets.

Would also like to know why there are still late communications among the DBs (esp. Woodson) that tend to leave everyone confused.

[th87]

Yeah, the "he does things that don't show up in the box score" kept me quiet for a while too. But now that we witnessed one of the worst defenses in HISTORY, I have to question what it was he did that didn't show up in the box score this year. All I see is a top-heavy, slow, and obsolete player trying to cover players faster than him, and getting swallowed up by blocks.

It has been established that it wasn't just him who was at fault for the defensive embarrassment, but for things to change, there has to be a chance for a renewal. And a renewal can only happen if players without upside are turned over (unless they're really good, like Woodson). So Hawk fits that. As did Poppinga and Bigby in the past.

[Bretsky]

In the past Hawk was reliably average with little upside
This year he wasn't even that.

I don't think he's as bad a Poppinga....but his performance this year was often Poppinga and Bigby like

[swede]

In the past Hawk was reliably average with little upside
This year he wasn't even that.

I don't think he's as bad a Poppinga....but his performance this year was often Poppinga and Bigby like

Ouch!

[woodbuck27]

Originally Posted by Bretsky

"In the past Hawk was reliably average with little upside
This year he wasn't even that. I don't think he's as bad a Poppinga....but his performance this year was often Poppinga and Bigby like" ... B.




" Ouch! " .... Swede

Gong !!! and .........Do we have some conclusion ...some direction or desire to want to see TT take RE: AJ Hawk?

I look at this player and all the speculation we went through last season and the 'magical thinking discussion' about an AJ Hawk to Buffalo for Marshawn Lynch deal. I place emphasis on 'the words 'magical thinking'.

How good would ** Marshawn Lynch have looked in our offense as an option for MM? How much longer does TT give AJ Hawk is one question but an easier one IMO is. Don't we need to get something more at RB? We've been asking that certainly since 2004 and before that as concerns RB and pass rush.

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshawn_Lynch $$

$$ 2010 season ... Marshawn Lynch

Lynch suffered an ankle sprain in the Bills' preseason opening game against the Washington Redskins and was expected to be out for three to four weeks.[23] He started three games for the Bills before being traded to the Seattle Seahawks on October 5 for two draft picks, a fourth-rounder in 2011 and a conditional pick in 2012.[24]


Don't those questions come down to the basics of winning football games in terms of some of the following:

Resting the defense.

Winning the battle of the clock.

Pressuring the opposing QB and all these:

In terms of reality and team strength in the NFL today.

GO Ted Thompson GO ! Get the wind behind us man.

[Smeefers]

I agree with the Hawk had a bad year take. I suppose I just don't think it was awful. I suppose you guys don't remember Na'il Diggs and Hannibal Naives. That's who we had before we had Hawk. People are talking like he's barely an average player and that's not true. He's had several decent seasons and one kind of crappy one. There were a ton more problems this year than just Hawk and he definitely wasn't a top concern to me and he still isn't. His money isn't a concern for me. He's ranked 15 our of 51 and you know what? That sounds just about right. Besides Tramon Williams and the guys in their rookie contracts, there isn't a guy below him who I think deserves more money than him. He's got a back loaded contract and if he doesn't play up to potential, they'll drop him or renegotiate with him. Just like they did last time.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/green-bay-packers/salary/67046?q=green-bay-packers

[Brandon494]

He made 1.2M last season but next season and years after he will be making 4M+ which we put him in the top 3 paid players on the team. He had a good rookie season and played solid last season but besides that he's been average and sucked this season. He's just an average LB with a great name.

[swede]

He made 1.2M last season but next season and years after he will be making 4M+ which we put him in the top 3 paid players on the team. He had a good rookie season and played solid last season but besides that he's been average and sucked this season. He's just an average LB with a great name.

I support your right to beat that drum. More cowbell, though.

[denverYooper]

I support your right to beat that drum. More cowbell, though.

Swede puts on his pants one leg at a time -- just like the rest of you. Except, once his pants are on, he makes gold records.

[SkinBasket]

You kept going on and on about how much stats mean so I gave you some stats and now your acting like they don't mean anything. You sir are the funny one!

Maybe you should quote my extensive use of stats. Or get your shit straight, since you can't.

And they blame the teachers in the cities...

[mraynrand]

Swede puts on his pants one leg at a time -- just like the rest of you. Except, once his pants are on, he makes gold records.

Ironically, making the gold records gets those pants right off again, but under more favorable circumstances.