Packers -v- 49ers game week conversation

[BobDobbs]

I see what you're saying. But, really how much more on the shelf is our running game going to get? We use it as a garnish. I do think that you have to run a bit at least out of shotgun to try slow down the pass rush. They are very physical and disciplined, we won't be cracking off six yard run after six yard run. We'll have a pass heavy game plan just like every game plan we always have. I do think that you have to mix and match running backs. It looks like Kuhn is the third down back/personal protector judging from the preseason.

I think how the O-line plays, specifically Newhouse and Saturday, is the key to the whole game. If we can give the QB time we should win. ARod is probably going to have some grass stains on his jersey at the end, but he's good under pressure.

I'm definitely worried about their offense. The are run first, have a stable of backs, and have a great O-line especially on the left side. Pickett is going to get a ton of work. They've added a lot of speed to their skill positions, but they have a lot of good players no great ones. I've got more respect for Alex Smith than some people, but I do hope that they try to put more of the game in his hands. He's ok throwing on the run, but he gets jumpy. Last year he hardly threw any picks, but that was a statistical outlier for his whole career.

Special teams may be huge in this game. Last year the 9ers had dominant special teams. That combined with their turnover differential combined to give them the best starting field position in the league and the best opponents field position. That's the game they want to play. Eat up field, beat you up and then capitalize on short fields courtesy of Andy Lee and Ted Ginn Jr. That's not a game that we want to play.
We want to control the run and force them to deal with our pressure. Big game for Nick Perry, their right tackle is not nearly as good as their left. If he can cause some damage we are in business.

The wild card is what is Harbaugh going to do with the new receivers Moss, Manningham, and Jenkins. Can they actually stretch the field of play or is Smith just going to take a few potshots deep? Harbaugh has been cagey in the preseason and he didn't put much on tape. He's definitely got a few trick plays scripted to use this season. I wouldn't be surprised to see a tackle eligible or even a flea flicker.

This is a statement game for them. We've owned them for years and they want to be elite. It's the best game of the weekend. I can't wait.

[Fritz]

Green Bay has four tight ends, two of whom can serve as blockers or pass protectors pretty successfully. You can use Kuhn but the other running backs as well if you have two tight ends in the game to help block.

[RashanGary]

Green Bay has four tight ends, two of whom can serve as blockers or pass protectors pretty successfully. You can use Kuhn but the other running backs as well if you have two tight ends in the game to help block.

There are certain things in the NFL, with certain teams, I guess you could call them identities. These identities are not a secret to, well, anybody really. The 49ers like to play physical defense. They have a powerful base 3-4. The Packers like to spread it out on offense. They like to put the ball in the MVPs hand and chuck it around.

I can't imagine a scenario where the Packers break mold from their identity to play to San Francisco's identity. I can't imagine it so much, that I listened to Mike McCarthy's press conference and he said a part of the reason they kept 6 receivers is because there's no secret how they play football and that's not going to change. He said it with a little bit of a "we're going to pass it down your fucking throat and you're going to like it." attitude.

Look, the Packers are't going big, they are't going toe to toe with San Francisco. If they do, I have no confidence in McCarthy or humanity as a whole.

[Pugger]

I fear this game is gonna be a lot closer than some of you think. We've always had problems with TEs like Davis. And we better be better against the run than we were against KC when our starters were in there. Maybe having Pickett back in there will help. If we can run just enough to keep SF from pinning their ears back and pummeling Rodgers we should be successful.

[pbmax]

OK, way behind posting and reading but picked up one thing over the weekend while preparing to draft a completely mediocre fantasy team and it has some bearing on the 49ers (the item I read, that is, not the fantasy team).

Several of the reporters (esp. Bill Huber at Packer Report/Scout.com) are suggesting that the biggest change in the D this year will be the dime defense. Everyone knows how much this team played nickel, which we all have come to refer to as the 2-4 as Justin mentioned above.

What these reporters expect (no sources, just observation of camp reps) is a lot more dime instead of nickel. Basically adding one more DB and subtracting one LB (Hawk probably).

Depending on the O personnel, especially if a team keeps a TE in the game, that might make Woodson more linebacker than slot corner as we have seen before, esp in the dime. Because Bush/Hayward could be stuck on the slot receiver who the team least fears. This would be a response to the shellacking the Packers D took against good TEs in the middle of the field. One problem with my interpretation is that I have no idea if the Defense allowed Woodson to flop sides to shadow a target.

If a team has a good pass catching RB, it will also put a lot of pressure on DJ Smith, who they can isolate by moving Woodson and OtherSlotCB to the same side of the field.

Second problem with this observation/prediction is that with one LB, the dime is even more susceptible to the run.

Which leads me to my last point. We might see more base than we expect, even if there is more dime (which obviously means less nickel overall). To get a favorable down and distance for Capers dime, they will need to shut down the run far better than last year. And that would seem to mean more base in middling down and distance.

This theory is sort of all over the map, but camp seems to have suggested Woodson at safety is simply the start of changes to Capers scheme.

[hoosier]

I would like to know where the myth of Cedric Benson being a good pass blocker came from.

[Patler]

I would like to know where the myth of Cedric Benson being a good pass blocker came from.

Especially when Van Pelt said pass protection was his biggest hurdle to overcome; and JSO had comments from their unidentified sources (scouts) when he was signed who said pass protection was a weakness, along with fumbles.

I know someone on here had stats supporting an argument that he is very good at pass protection. I hope it was an accurate measurement of his ability and not just a statistical anomaly.

[Bossman641]

I hope, on Vince's grave, that McCarthy doesn't intend on getting into a ground and pound-bigger dick pissing match with this San Francisco 49ers team using our tiny, last rated 2-4 defense vs their utterly dominating version of the 3-4 and Cedric Benson vs their healthy Frank Gore. I hope on hope we make this an AR vs Alex Smith matchup. Literally, fuck Cedric Benson. Fuck Alex Green. Put the ball in AR's hand. Give him the best body guard possible and go to town on their dime defense with Nelson, Jennings, Finley and Cobb/Driver/Jones.

Oh, man, just listening to the people here, if the Packers have any intention of getting into that type of a pissing match with this team, we are doomed, literally.

Where is Wist when you need him. If ever there was a time to worry about going tiny on defense vs a dominant running team and then trying to run the ball with a finesse offense against one of the greatest defenses in the league, this is the time.

Come on JH. You know better than that. MM knows his team. When has he ever coached that way? It'll be the same as always, spread the field, put the ball in AR's hands, and use enough screens to try to slow down the opposing DL.

I'm more worried about how our D will hold up against their running game then I am about how our offense will fare.

[Bossman641]

I would like to know where the myth of Cedric Benson being a good pass blocker came from.

X 2. I think somebody threw some stat out there once, but everything I've seen from scouts/analysts suggests he a is below average pass protector.

[Fritz]

Having watched MM, when have we ever seen him try to play macho ball? He directs a mostly-passing offense.

What I meant with my Kuhn-two-tight-ends comment was not that I hoped MM would try to ram the ball down SF's throat; I was simply responding to what seemed to me to be an either/or argument: that either you use Kuhn because he can block, or you use everyone and pray AR doesn't get killed. I was trying to offer an alternative: would you have more choice of backs to use if you used some two-tight end looks to help with the blocking?

It doesn't mean you'd have to run more: you could keep one tight end in, or both in, to help block, then send Alex Green or Saine or whoever out to catch a pass, along with the two wide receivers. You could send both tight ends out and call a quick slant or something.

I'm just wondering if there are more options out there that make sense. I'm finally past wishing MM would run the ball more. It's a passing league now.

[Freak Out]

All I know is that if the Packers OL and company can keep Rodgers on his feet they win the game. Mix in a run or three but keep on BOMBING away!

[smuggler]

I think SF gets out to a 10-0 lead because of some silly thing we do. Then we roll, final score 34-17

[pbmax]

I am having flashbacks to a Viking game early in McCarthy's tenure versus the dominating version of the Williams Wall, when it lead the NFL is run D and was close to, in not precisely, top-ranked.

Deciding he needed to run to keep Favre (I think) upright, McCarthy's O put up over 100 yards rushing on that D. Despite every mouth breather on the planet saying it couldn't be done, nor should it be attempted.

If McCarthy decides he needs to run to keep Rodgers functioning, he will try it.

He may construct something wholly new like he did for that Vikes game or stick with zone runs. But it won't be because of some pissing contest or phallic comparison contest. M3 has admitted to a couple of emotion driven decisions during games, but his game plans aren't constructed in the same manner.

And Benson's numbers for both pass pro and pass reception are better than his reputation, suggesting that the rep is overblown. Similar to how Starks and Grant were capable, though not the equal of Brandon Jackson, of being a 3rd down back. Its not going to be a tire fire, but it won't be clean like Jackson was. On the plus side, while neither Benson or Stark will pass protect like Jackson, both have 20 football IQ points on him for what to do with the ball in their hands on a screen and blockers in front.

[Joemailman]

I am having flashbacks to a Viking game early in McCarthy's tenure versus the dominating version of the Williams Wall, when it lead the NFL is run D and was close to, in not precisely, top-ranked.

Deciding he needed to run to keep Favre (I think) upright, McCarthy's O put up over 100 yards rushing on that D. Despite every mouth breather on the planet saying it couldn't be done, nor should it be attempted.

If McCarthy decides he needs to run to keep Rodgers functioning, he will try it.

For the record, I believe the game you were referring to was in 2008, Rodgers' first start.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/200809...rs#tab=analyze

[RashanGary]

My biggest point on this game is that any package that allows SF to stay in base defense is a package we should not put on the field this week.

It doesn't matter if we have 20 fB's on the field and 30 running backs, they're not going to respect our run no matter how you slice it, and they don't have to. If htey're in base, they'll stop it anyway.

They'll be coming at AR's head, and the big difference in having 4 passing weapons with Kuhn protecting AR vs having blockers and backs is that instead of AR having a spread field with dominating passing weapons, he'll have fewer passing options and the run won't work anyway.

This just isn't the time or place to run the ball. Give Benson adn Green some time. It will come together, but for Sunday, against a defense that will do anythign to stay in their base defense, we can't just show up and do exactly what htey want us to do.


We will not run on this base defense. If AR gets time, we can light up their nickle/dime players. Just go all in on this one. Our best players on offense are our WRs and QB. That's who's shoulders you put the game on, the MVP and his dynamite receiving corp. Not a couple RB's who barely know what they're supposed to do.