O-LINE ANALYSIS, PACKERS VS. FALCONS (MOLL EDITION!)

[BooHoo]

I don't care who starts on the O Line or who the backups are. Just get the job done!

[woodbuck27]

" @ Woodbuck, I'm glad to see you doing a wee bit of cheering for Thompson. I don't mind the roller coaster ride. I do wonder, though, why you so vehemently insist that you do not compare war to football. Why not? Ok, granted, in war the stakes are ever so much higher and the fans ten times as irrational, but as a general metaphor and analogy (depending), it seems to me that the reference to war is a legitimate one. " Terry

Thanks Terry.

I've changed my position (somewhat) the past two weeks...Look at my NFL Division Winners and Wild Cards.

That is due to me (maybe) understanding and trusting some things I see, yet moreso....it's the people here (you included Terry), that have made me revise certain negative feelings, I didn't enjoy in me...

my overall attitude is diferent for a specdific reason. That is mine - come what may?

I asked myself. Why not enjoy/celebrate, the length of time I've been a Packer fan, and possibly the final games of Brett Favre and/or Ahman Green?

Support this Forum - as much as possible positively, and douse doubt, yet be fair/real as we move forward in 2006.

That's where I have arrived for this season Terry.

My Dad was through all the crap of WW II. Oversea's for about six and a half years. He was a gunner in the oldest Canadian Artillary Regiment in the Canada's proud military history.

Our young men went through "the schitt" Terry throughout WW II. We were there !

Vince Lombardi left us quotes - that are "a foundation" for Corporation's/Company's/business's ... To instill proper attitude in men and women.

Vince may have borrowed phrases in quotations, or whole quotations that are inspred from Military history, but I have a problem Terry with this in general day to day terms in reference to football:

This is merely my personal stance, and I have no wish to impose that on other's.

Simply put Terry.... NFL football and NFL football players, should not or hardly be compared, to the horrors of past and near present military history, and the sacrifices of soldiers at WAR.

Football players "play" football. They often fall to adversity. We even have seen players die on a football field.

yet...

Soldiers "in action" at WAR - OFTEN face crippling physical and emotional/mentle injury... and too often soldiers ...DIE... to serve their countries stance against the Enemy (foe) !!

Some may say: jeee but it comes with the territory. War is what it is. Football players are not soldiers in battle. I respect that fact.It's just that simple for me.

That is only my personal position and others my do as they see fit.....

I hope I've clarified that for YOU Terry....

GO PACK GO ! FAITH PACKER FANS in 2006 !!

[Patler]

Ron Wolf had the luxury of drafting for depth. Ted Thompson was not drafting for depth. And who knows what kind of potential he has at LT ? As all we know so far is he seems to have failed at OG.

TT and his scouts (wist would have a field day with these comments) were thoroughly convinced that Colledge would excel as an OG in this system. That is what he was drafted for. You could argue Clifton is breaking down; I could argue he may have another successful 5-6 years in the league. Time will tell to see who is right, but he''s being paid big money to excel at OT and Colledge was drafted to play OG as he was immediately given the starters job to lose, which he did.

Colledge could certainly save our bacon as a backup OT; so could any other backup on our roster. But Teddy didn't draft him to be a backup on one of the worst OL's in football in 2005.

Clifton was drafted after the Packers were coming off an 8-8 season. That team wasn't deep, and he didn't have that luxury, but Wolf didn't go with conventional wisdom. He understood the importance of some positions. That's why he drafted QBs every year.

You can't say the scouts thought he would be a great OG. Maybe they thought he might make it at OG, but if nothing else, they'll have a good LT down the line.

Incredible. You've really gotten pessimistic about everything. So, you are going to judge Colledge before his first regular season game? I'll choose to wait a few years. You make me look like tex.

OK, "excellent" was an overexaggeration, but adequate would certainly be fair. And it's tough to argue he wasn't drafted with the intention of him starting.

B

I know I'm a couple days behind in this topic, but I wanted to comment on this because it demonstrates how easily it is to forget the "bad" things.

I'm not sure that the line entering 2000 was even considered "adequate" at best it was "unsettled". Taylor had left as a FA after 1997, Timmerman left after 1998. In 1999 the line was really not very good. Favre had been sacked over 30 times and Levens averaged less than 4 yards/carry. McKenzie and Wahle had split time at left guard and Earl Dotson was already suffering from the back problems, but playing through it. They never really liked Verba at tackle, even though he played relatively well. The only thing settled was that Winters was the center and Rivera the right guard.

Wolf wanted to shake things up, which was why they moved Verba from LT to LG, and inserted Wahle at left tackle, while hoping that Dotson would continue to hold up. The line clearly needed upgrading.

Wolf often commented that you needed to continually bring in offensive line prospects via the draft. Not all his picks worked out, obviously, but Wolf was able to get past continual changes in the O-line by drafting Dotson in '93, Taylor in '94, Timmerman in '95, Rivera and Flanagan in '96, Verba in '97, Wahle in '98 as a supplemental pick who counted against the 1999 draft, and Clifton and Tauscher in 2000. That's a pretty impressive string of picks.

Sherman brought in one, Wells, via the draft, even though contracts were structured so that Rivera and Wahle would both need to be re-signed in the same off-season, with Flanagan up the next year. He also gets credit for signing Barry, but we really have no idea if Barry was a capable starter at tackle or just a great blocking TE. The depth of the o-line was allowed to erode to the point that there was not adequate backups at either guard position or at LT when Thompson came on board.

Thompson appears to be trying to do what Wolf did, drafting Coston and signing White in 2005, then drafting Colledge, Spitz and Moll this year. Bourke might even get to be included on the list. Tauscher and Clifton each have a couple years left on their contracts, but each is getting to the stage in their careers where injuries might linger. Replacements are always needed, and you need young guys waiting to take over.

[woodbuck27]

Posted August 22, 2006

Revamped O-line passes test

By Rob Demovsky
rdemovsk@greenbaypressgazette.com

Barring injury, the Green Bay Packers will open the regular season with the same starting offensive line they used in Saturday's preseason game against Atlanta — with rookies Tony Moll and Jason Spitz at the two guard spots.

The rookie guards held up well enough that coach Mike McCarthy and offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski decided to leave them where they are and work on continuity and chemistry between them and the other three offensive line starters.

"I thought it was important and I think we've talked about it the last couple of weeks that I was not comfortable waiting until the end of training camp to name the starting five," McCarthy said on Monday.

"So by going in this direction, it gives us a chance to get these five guys prepped and ready for Chicago."

Moll, a fifth-round draft pick, had a couple of breakdowns in his first start at right guard, and Spitz, a third-rounder, performed better in his first start at left guard than he did in the preseason opener at right guard. That leaves second-round draft pick Daryn Colledge on the outside looking in.

"If we can get three weeks (of practice) with the same five guys working towards Chicago," Jagodzinski said,

"that's what we're doing. We're working toward that first ballgame."

When asked if he thinks he and offensive line coach Joe Philbin have the right guys in the right spots, Jagodzinski said: "I think so. I think we're getting there."

Moll, who opened camp as a backup tackle, still has plenty to learn about playing guard. Philbin said he was responsible for two pressures of quarterback Brett Favre in Saturday's game against the Falcons. One came when Moll whiffed against veteran defensive tackle Rod Coleman, and the other came early in the third quarter when the Packers were backed up against their end zone.

"Coleman just slapped me to the side and said, 'Get out of here, kid,'" Moll said.

"The other one, they ran a twist and I was a little slow getting back to the defensive end, and the defensive tackle slipped through."

Moll said he hasn't been told by any of the coaches that he has won the starting job, but the best indication came on Monday when he was told he would continue to work with the starters.

"I think that means I proved myself to the coaches, that I can stick around and be a good player," Moll said.

Spitz said:

"You still have to do your job. You still have to perform every day. If I'm not doing my job a couple of weeks from now, it's not going to be the same five."

Moll and Spitz, along with center Scott Wells, left tackle Chad Clifton and right tackle Mark Tauscher, are expected to play well into the third quarter of Monday's preseason game at Cincinnati.

"I can't sit here and say this is the right thing for the next five years, and the guys are in the exact perfect spots," Philbin said.

"But with the information that we have today, yeah, I feel good about it. I think they responded well to the changes. Spitz played better than he did in San Diego even though he switched sides. Moll did a nice job. He had no glaring weaknesses.

"A week ago, everybody thought we were nothing. We've got to make sure we play well at Cincinnati. That's a national (TV) game on the road. There will be more pressure to perform there than playing at home, so we've still got a lot left to prove."

[Guiness]

As usual, well put Patler.

[The Leaper]

I agree completely with Patler. TT clearly went into this draft looking to stockpile OL prospects. I don't think he clearly labeled any of them as being specific answers...which is why he accumulates picks. Thompson is well aware that there are no givens in the process of drafting college talent. By bringing in plenty of young kids, he has provided depth that has withstood a rash of injuries to the OL.

With Clifton's knees and Favre's age, we NEED a capable reserve at LT. If that is the role Colledge can fill adequately this season, fabulous. I'm not going to label the pick as a failure after one poor outing in preseason.

[Patler]

I actually hope that Colledge can be a decent backup at LT this year. Who else is there? Clifton has had a couple games each of the last couple years in which he was questionable for playing right up until game time or games that he was not able to finish. Each year it will become more difficult for him to get ready, I was comfortable with Klemm as the backup, but who now?