The Level-Headed Thread About the Defense.

[mraynrand]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

just ignore the crap and post good stuff

[run pMc]

Well I guess it was only a matter of time. Here comes the sky falling now. Cluck.

LOL

I don't think a knee-jerk overreaction is needed, and I don't think a rookie LB like Teo is the answer to fixing the defense's problems.
There aren't too many QB's who can run that kind of offensive attack, and not many teams with the OL to road-grade guys like Raji with regularity. Give SF credit -- they're a tough team to beat.

Losing Bishop, Smith, and Perry didn't help the LB depth; as for Hawk, he's not spectacular and probably overpaid, but he shows up to play every game. Can't say that for any other LB, Clay Matthews included. There's value in availability. Who would back up Hawk if he went down? Francois? I highly doubt any other ILB available on the roster would have held up at ILB like Hawk did. (I can't believe I'm sticking up for Hawk this much...yikes.) I can't tell if Hawk is JAG or not...he started the year out pretty well. Jones and Walden got exposed on a few plays and that happens with backups.

Personally, I'd like to see Capers, etc., stick around, and for more *quality* depth added at each level: DL, LB (Walden should be a backup), and at S. I'm not sold on Woodson at S -- he couldn't cover Frank Gore -- and unless McMillian makes a big jump next year, I don't anyone other than Burnett at safety who is more than JAG.

Yes, there's work for them to do and yes, it's a disappointing end to the season. Considering how the team came back from the Fail Mary in Seattle to win the division, give them a little credit. One last thing: this will be a *very* interesting offseason for them -- big changes with the WR's, plus at least some of the recent draft picks (esp. on defense) ought to make that big jump between rookie and 2nd season. If that happens the D could be much improved.

[pbmax]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

Its hard to know a spy from shallow zone coverage during a game without seeing the patterns from afar. The Packers played a lot of man when they blitzed, but also played some zone underneath and in the middle. So its an open question whether that backer was in zone looking for a pattern/receiver or looking for CK.

[Freak Out]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

LOL...way to early for that.

[woodbuck27]

Read through this thread, thanks to all the contribs, it's a good one.

My reaction after the game was mostly one of being stunned. I just don't get how we looked so badly outclassed by SF. Why we didn't have an answer for Kaepernick, and to a lesser extent, Crabtree. Moss played like the #3 WR he is now, Davis and Walker contributed very little.

There was a lot of talk in the gameday thread about having a spy on Kaepernick. Did anyone rewatch or see any information about whether or not that was happening? While the actual game, it certainly didn't appear so.

I see mention of our two missing LBs, Bishop and Worthy. While I agree their loss hurt us, I think the Pack should have been able to scheme to take away Kaepernick's ability to constantly run for big plays. It wasn't like their Oline was blowing us up or getting to the second level. He was mostly running naked by the time he got over the LOS.

Lastly - was that really a veer option offense as Red says? Wow...I guess it is. Will we be seeing more of it now? Tebow ran a triple option in Denver, but it was limited. Seems like there are three QBs who could theoretically run it, Kaepernick, Wilson and RGIII (if he comes back ok). Have to think there's a VERY limited life to that though, Kaepernick took at least one big hit, the one where he got a 15yd taunting penalty. He walked away from that one, but he won't always.

Hi Guiness a really rough defeat for our team.

I sat watching that game with my Lady and what was clear to her left me the same as you :

Stunned ! Mae put her arm around me and gave me a hug and asked me how I was doing. I was so silent. I was 'in shock'.

I was so wrapped up in the conclusion of the Ravens @ Broncos game that I actually didn't catch the six points that Sam Shields put up to assist our offense. I was between the TV screen and NFL.com on the puter. When I finally tuned into Packers @ 49ers I neglected to hit the record button for the game. I hope that NFL Access will show that game in it's entirety this week. I find little value in a recording of a game that the Packer win. I want to see this game again when 'the shock factor' is removed.

Who was spying on Colin Kaepernick?

The response to that question Guiness, isn't obvious to me.

In the first four possessions of the second half our offense managed a FG. At the 8:38 point of the third quarter the game was tied '24 all' on a Mason Crosby FG. Was the 49ers 'D' that good that an Aaron Rodgers led offense could only manage 3 points in four possessions?

Here's the game play by play so anyone can have a look and see for themself:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013011201/2012/POST19/packers@49ers?icampaign=GamePass_ScoreStrip_watch#menu=gamepass&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

3rd Quarter SCORE: 49ers 24 - Packers 21

Green Bay first possession of the second half:

Green Bay Packers to receive at 15:00 of the 3rd quarter:

2-D.Akers kicks 66 yards from SF 35 to GB -1. 18-R.Cobb to GB 26 for 27 yards (46-D.Walker).

1-10-GB 26 (14:54) (Shotgun) 26-D.Harris right tackle to GB 29 for 3 yards (94-J.Smith, 38-D.Goldson).

2-7-GB 29 (14:11) (Shotgun) 26-D.Harris right end to GB 32 for 3 yards (53-N.Bowman, 38-D.Goldson).

3-4-GB 32 (13:28) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 23 for -9 yards (52-P.Willis).

4-13-GB 23 (13:05) 8-T.Masthay punts 42 yards to SF 35, Center-61-B.Goode, fair catch by 19-T.Ginn.


Second Possession of the second half: SCORE 49ers 24 - Packers 21

Green Bay Packers at 11:56

1-10-GB 11 (11:56) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 85-G.Jennings to GB 13 for 2 yards (55-A.Brooks).

2-8-GB 13 (11:23) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right to 85-G.Jennings to GB 43 for 30 yards (38-D.Goldson). Caught at GB 43. 0-yds YAC

1-10-GB 43 (10:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 87-J.Nelson to SF 49 for 8 yards (26-T.Brock). Caught at 50. 1-yd YAC

2-2-SF 49 (10:18) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 87-J.Nelson pushed ob at SF 41 for 8 yards (26-T.Brock). Caught at SF 41. 0-yds YAC

1-10-SF 41 (10:01) (Shotgun) 18-R.Cobb right guard to SF 22 for 19 yards (52-P.Willis, 31-D.Whitner).

1-10-SF 22 (9:22) (Shotgun) 18-R.Cobb up the middle to SF 18 for 4 yards (99-Ald.Smith).

2-6-SF 18 (8:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 87-J.Nelson.

Timeout #1 by GB at 08:46.

3-6-SF 18 (8:46) PENALTY on GB-74-M.Newhouse, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SF 18 - No Play.

3-11-SF 23 (8:46) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 18-R.Cobb to SF 15 for 8 yards (38-D.Goldson). FUMBLES (38-D.Goldson), recovered by GB-70-T.Lang at SF 15. 70-T.Lang to SF 13 for 2 yards (20-P.Cox).

4-1-SF 13 (8:38) 2-M.Crosby 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-61-B.Goode, Holder-8-T.Masthay.

SCORE: PACKERS 24 - 49ers 24


Third Possession of the second half: SCORE after San Fran scored '7' on their last possession SF 31 - GB 24

Green Bay Packers at 07:07

2-D.Akers kicks 67 yards from SF 35 to GB -2. 18-R.Cobb, Touchback.

1-10-GB 20 (7:07) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 85-G.Jennings.

2-10-GB 20 (7:01) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 83-T.Crabtree (53-N.Bowman) [55-A.Brooks].

3-10-GB 20 (6:57) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers scrambles left end ran ob at GB 37 for 17 yards.

1-10-GB 37 (6:27) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 18-R.Cobb to GB 40 for 3 yards (38-D.Goldson, 20-P.Cox).

2-7-GB 40 (5:52) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 18-R.Cobb to GB 41 for 1 yard (94-J.Smith).

3-6-GB 41 (5:12) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 88-J.Finley (53-N.Bowman).

4-6-GB 41 (5:07) 8-T.Masthay punts 52 yards to SF 7, Center-61-B.Goode, fair catch by 19-T.Ginn.


Right at the beginning of the fourth quarter the 49ers score again to increase their lead. SCORE SF 38 - GB 24

OK.... We have a whole quarter and are down 14 points. Two possessions !

Green Bay Packers at 14:57

Fourth Possession of the second half:

2-D.Akers kicks 60 yards from SF 35 to GB 5. 18-R.Cobb MUFFS catch, and recovers at GB 8. 18-R.Cobb to GB 11 for 3 yards (57-M.Wilhoite).

Did you remember that one?

1-10-GB 11 (14:51) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to GB 18 for 7 yards (53-N.Bowman). Caught at GB 17. 1-yd YAC

2-3-GB 18 (14:26) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 88-J.Finley to GB 27 for 9 yards (52-P.Willis). Caught at GB 27. 0-yds YAC

1-10-GB 27 (13:58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to GB 32 for 5 yards (22-C.Rogers, 38-D.Goldson). Caught at GB 29. 3-yds YAC

2-5-GB 32 (13:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 88-J.Finley to GB 34 for 2 yards (53-N.Bowman, 31-D.Whitner). Caught at GB 30. 4-yds YAC

3-3-GB 34 (12:53) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 87-J.Nelson to GB 44 for 10 yards (29-C.Culliver). Caught at GB41. 3-yds YAC

1-10-GB 44 (12:17) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 83-T.Crabtree.

2-10-GB 44 (12:10) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to GB 49 for 5 yards (52-P.Willis). Caught at GB 46. 3-yds YAC

3-5-GB 49 (11:43) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to 85-G.Jennings.

What if .... that pass had connected !? Can you still see that play?

4-5-GB 49 (11:37) 8-T.Masthay punts 44 yards to SF 7, Center-61-B.Goode, downed by GB-10-J.Ross.

Again in this half. Our offense didn't get it done.

Unfortunately as we saw it got worse for us on the scoreboard !

Some might say that the turning point in that game was the Jeremy Ross bobble. If you do, I ask this question:

How did Colin Kaepernick and the San Francisco 49ers respond to the Sam Shields 'pick six'?

GO PACK GO!

[Guiness]

[QUOTE=woodbuck27;710326]Hi Guiness a really rough defeat for our team.


In the first four possessions of the second half our offense managed a FG. At the 8:38 point of the third quarter the game was tied '24 all' on a Mason Crosby FG. Was the 49ers 'D' that good that an Aaron Rodgers led offense could only manage 3 points in four possessions?

[QUOTE]

While I (and everyone else) would have like the O to be on fire and respond score for score, what I saw was that the Pack's defense couldn't hold serve. What stood out to me was the two times near the end of the game the offense flipped the field, putting the Niner's offense inside their 10 yard line. Both series resulted in a TD for the Niners. Before that, as you pointed out, it was a tie game...

[denverYooper]

I believe Dom's contract expires soon, doesn't it? If so, the JSO guys might be playing up the "Fire Capers" angle a bit more because of that. Have any of them mentioned his contract status?

I'm not exactly on the Fire Capers wagon, but it's possible that they simply don't extend him.

[woodbuck27]

[QUOTE=Guiness;710333][QUOTE=woodbuck27;710326]Hi Guiness a really rough defeat for our team.


In the first four possessions of the second half our offense managed a FG. At the 8:38 point of the third quarter the game was tied '24 all' on a Mason Crosby FG. Was the 49ers 'D' that good that an Aaron Rodgers led offense could only manage 3 points in four possessions?

While I (and everyone else) would have like the O to be on fire and respond score for score, what I saw was that the Pack's defense couldn't hold serve. What stood out to me was the two times near the end of the game the offense flipped the field, putting the Niner's offense inside their 10 yard line. Both series resulted in a TD for the Niners. Before that, as you pointed out, it was a tie game...

In the third quarter:

4-1-SF 13 (8:38) 2-M.Crosby 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-61-B.Goode, Holder-8-T.Masthay.

S C O R E: GB 24 - SF 24 Plays: 9 Possession: 3:31

San Francisco 49ers at 08:25

2-M.Crosby kicks 74 yards from GB 35 to SF -9. 23-L.James, Touchback.

1-10-SF 20 (8:25) 7-C.Kaepernick pass deep left to 15-M.Crabtree to SF 38 for 18 yards (38-T.Williams). Caught at SF 37. 1-yd YAC

1-10-SF 38 (7:56) (Shotgun) 7-C.Kaepernick pass short left to 15-M.Crabtree to SF 44 for 6 yards (37-S.Shields). Caught at SF 37. 7-yds YAC

2-4-SF 44 (7:16) (Shotgun) 7-C.Kaepernick right end for 56 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

2-D.Akers extra point is GOOD, Center-86-B.Jennings, Holder-4-A.Lee.

S C O R E : GB 24 - SF 31 Plays: 3 Possession: 1:18

We get the ball back and start out on our 20 yard line and our offense moves it to the GB 41 yard line and we punt.

4-6-GB 41 (5:07) 8-T.Masthay punts 52 yards to SF 7, Center-61-B.Goode, fair catch by 19-T.Ginn.

San Francisco 49ers at 05:00 remaining in the third quarter:

1-10-SF 7 (5:00) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore left guard to SF 10 for 3 yards (79-R.Pickett, 50-A.Hawk). GB-79-R.Pickett was injured during the play.

2-7-SF 10 (4:20) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to SF 15 for 5 yards (59-B.Jones, 50-A.Hawk).

3-2-SF 15 (3:36) (Shotgun) 7-C.Kaepernick pass deep right to 15-M.Crabtree to SF 31 for 16 yards (38-T.Williams). Caught at SF 31. 0-yds YAC

1-10-SF 31 (2:57) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore right guard to SF 34 for 3 yards (50-A.Hawk).

2-7-SF 34 (2:18) 7-C.Kaepernick pass incomplete deep right to 85-V.Davis. PENALTY on GB-38-T.Williams, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at SF 34 - No Play.

1-10-SF 39 (2:11) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to SF 41 for 2 yards (98-C.Wilson).

2-8-SF 41 (1:32) 7-C.Kaepernick pass deep right to 85-V.Davis to GB 15 for 44 yards (50-A.Hawk). Caught at GB 25. 10-yds YAC

1-10-GB 15 (:45) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to GB 2 for 13 yards (50-A.Hawk, 42-M.Burnett).

END QUARTER 3

4th Quarter

San Francisco 49ers continues ...[/B]

1-2-GB 2 (15:00) 67-D.Kilgore and 68-L.Davis reported in as eligible.

21-F.Gore right tackle for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

0-0-GB 2 2-D.Akers extra point is GOOD, Center-86-B.Jennings, Holder-4-A.Lee.

S C O R E : GB 24 - SF 38 Plays: 8 Possession: 5:03

Like I posted before I don't have this game recorded. In the play by play available on NFL.Com I cannot find the J. Ross bobble that was a huge turnover to the 49ers.**

*** OK That was in the second quarter and gave the 49ers the ball on our 9 yard line and quickly they scored a TD to tie the score at '14'. In these posts I'm confining my analysis to the second half; specifically what transpired before and after when we tied the score at '24'.

[woodbuck27]

I should have known it was impossible to have a level-headed thread about the defense.

Hi .... I apologize for not restricting my posts on this thread to strictly defensive issues. I believe that offense and defense are certainly related or depended upon one another.

[woodbuck27]

And by the way, anyone who argues against the bye week next year should simply be reminded of this game. The 49ers put both weeks to good use.

Really. The 49ers looked very fresh ... very ready.

The Packer players looked to me like they ran out of gas. Is it the case that many of our players were suffering a hangover from some virus?

Aaron Rodgers (his eyes) looked bad. He had no fire in his eyes..'no will'. So many times our players seemed confused. Recall the way Clay Matthews looked. He was owned in that second half.

[VegasPackFan]

I dont get all the Hawk bashing. He was second in tackling this year and led the team two years ago in tackles. He is a team player and you never hear any bitching or complaining from him.

[denverYooper]

Really. The 49ers looked very fresh ... very ready.

The Packer players looked to me like they ran out of gas. Is it the case that many of our players were suffering a hangover from some virus?

Aaron Rodgers (his eyes) looked bad. He had no fire in his eyes..'no will'. So many times our players seemed confused. Recall the way Clay Matthews looked. He was owned in that second half.

Good point about the virus. Several players were in and out with the flu, and it sounds like it hit Cobb pretty hard.

The defense ran out of gas because they were on the field so much.

As far as Rodgers, I thought he was a bit too willful. He was throwing harder than usual even when he was on. Even his INT was way over Jordy's head, although I think Jordy might have been thinking of breaking toward the corner and Rodgers thinking down the middle.

[woodbuck27]

Good point about the virus. Several players were in and out with the flu, and it sounds like it hit Cobb pretty hard.

The defense ran out of gas because they were on the field so much.

As far as Rodgers, I thought he was a bit too willful. He was throwing harder than usual even when he was on. Even his INT was way over Jordy's head, although I think Jordy might have been thinking of breaking toward the corner and Rodgers thinking down the middle.

The teams 'O' and 'D' certainly rely on one another to assist the other.

Aaron Rodgers didn't look at all like himself. If you can ever see a recording of that game observe his eyes.

I'm not sure that Aaron Rodgers really registered the danger on that long pass and pick. He was quick on electing that play. It was one of those 'no harm no foul' plays. It just was.

[woodbuck27]

I dont get all the Hawk bashing. He was second in tackling this year and led the team two years ago in tackles. He is a team player and you never hear any bitching or complaining from him.

AJ Hawk was a high selection by Ted Thompson. Unless TT can use him in a very sensable trade. AJ Hawk will remain a Green Bay Packer for some time.

[Deputy Nutz]

Both offensively and defensively, the packers failed on Saturday night. The offense didn't meet expectations and the defense certainly didn't. I am not making the argument that one was worse than the other, they were beat by the better team, not once but twice this season. In the off season the Packers will lose players and gain players with the predetermined goal of getting better in all three phases of the game. Dom Capers doesn't need to be fired, he just needs to fix what was broken or exposed.