Running game - Is it really the guys up front?

[Old School]

Patler, was Jim Irwin the announcer you're thinking of?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Correction: Eddie Lee Ivery

[mraynrand]

Correction: Eddie Lee Ivery

I thought maybe you were going to start singing:

Eddie Lee, Ivory!
Running in perfect harmony

[Patler]

Patler, was Jim Irwin the announcer you're thinking of?

Irwin would have been in the booth at the time, but would not have been so critical. Might have been Gary Bender or Lionel Aldridge. I liked Aldridge. Tended to be honest and blunt. I think Ted Moore was gone by then. There were a couple who weren't around long, they did use a three man booth for a while.

[RashanGary]

I'd like to think I came up with the theory, but I heard it from Larry McCarren. In his opinion, the QB and RB make the OL, not the other way around. That's why I'm hard on AR for the sacks he takes. Favre had like 7 sacks his last season. AR had something like 40 the next season with the same guys. He just plays that style. And I don't even blame AR really. There's a give and take. I think the risks he takes holding the ball help our team because they pay off more often than not. And when it comes to running backs. When we had Grant, we were a good rushing team. Everyone else has sucked since.

I'm also excited about Lacy.



And I've seen counter arguements where the greatest OL's in NFL history blocked well for a lot of marginal players. I get that. But there are so few of those types of OL's. For the most part, and this I think is a strong majority of the time, I think the RB is what makes a running game. Great RB's will be great wherever they go. Really good ones will be really good. The OL plays a part, but I think great runners make the OL look good by setting up blocks and picking up extra yards after contact.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Well said, Justin. I agree 100%. Just as an aside, the Glory Years Packers had one of the best running games in the league and a Hall of Fame OL. Still, Starr took a huge amount of sacks. I remember we all cussed him for it. It's the price Starr and AR pay for their high completion % and low interception rate. Not a bad trade-off in my opinion, just frustrating.

[bobblehead]

DuJuan was a nice boost to the run game at the end of the season.

Exactly. We brought in a used car salesman and the running game took off. That doesn't tell anyone anything? We had no healthy RB on the roster for a lot of the year. Green wasn't recovered, starks was on the trainers table and Benson was out.

This isn't a case of "finally we got a good RB off the used car lot", it was a case of, "look, a healthy guy can get yards if the blocking is there".

Its more about the OL. Obviously you need SOME talent at RB otherwise we would just line up a LB and let him run.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think what it proves is that the RB's on the roster before Harris showed up were not as good as he was, injuries or no injuries. This year Harris is 2nd to Lacy on most of the depth charts I've seen. MM says Harris is his starter. Where are the other guys from last year? Benson and Grant are gone. Green is on the bubble. Starks is the only one of last year's group who's given Harris any competition at all.

[Smeefers]

DuJuan was a nice boost to the run game at the end of the season.

The only reason Harris did any good was because the Defense was keying in on the pass, basically ignoring our dismal run game. I also think it's a sad day when a back getting a high of 70 yards in one game is considered a boost. Woo! 6 games, 250 yards!

I've never understood the DuJuan Harris fan club. Dude should still be washing cars in Jacksonville.

[Carolina_Packer]

I think what it proves is that the RB's on the roster before Harris showed up were not as good as he was, injuries or no injuries. This year Harris is 2nd to Lacy on most of the depth charts I've seen. MM says Harris is his starter. Where are the other guys from last year? Benson and Grant are gone. Green is on the bubble. Starks is the only one of last year's group who's given Harris any competition at all.

I'm not sure why MM would say that about Harris. It seemed a bit out of character. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if it's not some kind of coaching gamesmanship to send a message to the running backs room to get someone to distinguish themselves and get the running game off the ground. I'm sure he meant the kind words he said about Harris's determination and drive, and I love that too. It just proves, like the front office often proves, that there is talent everywhere. You just have to know what it looks like when you are evaluating it for your system. Given the theme of competition at each position that you often hear, I'm surprised MM spoke up about one player, even if he likes the make-up of that player. Why not let their play in the pre-season determine who deserves to start?

Some of the Brockington runs were sick! I openly laughed at how high his pad level was, but that he ran with such determination, and I saw some defenders trying to go high and that just was't going to work for a bull like Brockington. I've only seen highlights, and what my relatives have told me. I started really following the Packers in 1978 when I was 12. James Lofton's rookie year, Terdell Middleton, David Whitehurst playing out of his mind and the Packers tying the mighty Vikings. There was some excitement in '78...then there was '79...oy!

[mraynrand]

I've never understood the DuJuan Harris fan club. Dude should still be washing cars in Jacksonville.

He sold cars. Sent them out to be detailed. A least give the guy that much credit

[King Friday]

I think the OL has a far greater impact in the relationship than the RB does. A stinky RB can still find success behind a great OL. It takes Barry Sanders to find success behind a mediocre OL. If the OL doesn't consistently open some holes, I don't care who your RB is...he's probably going to struggle. However, the strength of the passing game factors in as well. If a defense can load up against a run game, it hinders the effectiveness of the OL which then hinders the success of the RB. The relationships are a lot more complex than merely saying one position can make another...even between QB and WR, which is where you have the GREATEST impact of one position over another, the QB can only make the WR as good as his OL will let him. If the QB is constantly looking out his earhole, he couldn't make Jerry Rice look good.

Our OL is not horrible...but their certainly aren't great. Technically, they are above average in pass blocking and below average in run blocking. Since we have an elite passing attack, it allows our mediocre OL to perhaps not look as bad as they might otherwise look on a normal NFL offense when it comes to run blocking. I have no doubt a good share of our running woes come from an OL that just can't run block well. It hasn't been helped by the fact that we've had a bunch of guys at RB ever since Grant faded. Since we have that passing game to keep defenses honest, a great RB could find reasonable success even behind our OL. Might our OL's lack of desire in run blocking somewhat descend from the fact that the franchise has placed ZERO importance on the RB position in recent years? We all know how it goes...if one aspect of your job isn't viewed as important by your superiors, then you are less likely to pay it as much attention as the other areas where there is more focus. Hopefully, the organization is trying to turn that around and make the running game something other than an afterthought.

[King Friday]

The only reason Harris did any good was because the Defense was keying in on the pass, basically ignoring our dismal run game. I also think it's a sad day when a back getting a high of 70 yards in one game is considered a boost. Woo! 6 games, 250 yards!

I've never understood the DuJuan Harris fan club. Dude should still be washing cars in Jacksonville.

I agree. No different than Starks during the Super Bowl run. Starks is a joke...but when the opposing defenses are sold out to stop an elite passing game, just about any run game can find limited success.

Bottom line...16 game season, no 500 yard rusher. That is downright pathetic...especially from a team that is often playing with a lead (so they should run more than most teams because of that) and who has an elite passing game that the defense will key on (so they should have an easier time finding success on the ground compared to most). Honestly, our run performance last year was probably one of the worst in the NFL in quite awhile once you factor in the things that should be HELPING our run game. There is no reason why we can't average 4 ypc from the RB position. That is SOLELY due to the lack of importance the leadership placed on the run game. They didn't care, so no one else was going to either.

[ThunderDan]

Personally, I don't care who we have back there. We could have AP for all I care. I want the ball in Arod's hands.

That being said we do need to have running attempts to keep the other team's D honest. C benson last year was enough to help the pass game.

Ok, I would take AP.

[Pugger]

But a back with decent vision can make an O line look better than it is - and I'm not talking about Barry Sanders. Cedric Benson was starting to look competent until he broke his foot last season. I am eager to see what Lacy can do tonight.