What we saw last night

[King Friday]

You guys are consistent, lol...

What I saw, from the opening kickoff, was a repeat of the SF game...

What I saw was a preseason game. It has virtually no bearing on real football.

We play SF and WAS the first two games. You honestly think Capers is going to show those 2 power teams what he's planning to do week 1/2 during a preseason warmup? If so, you are an idiot.

[swede]

Well, our offense was dominated because Rodgers only played 5% of the game and Nelson and Cobb 0%. When your offensive playmakers aren't playing, a defense as good as Seattle's will make you look silly.

Defensively, I thought we held up well against Seattle. It wasn't a great game, but we held their #1 offense to 3 points in the first half. I don't care how often Seattle was penalized or shot themselves in the foot...3 points is 3 points, and that is what our defense gave up.

They are the rope-a-dope defense, that's for sure.

"Body shot! Kidney punch! Bicep! Bicep! Below the belt! Below the belt again! Sack? Field goal."

[wist43]

Worried about O line but that was against a very good Seattle front 7. They will struggle early this year against that level of talent running the ball. New positions, old EDS and no Bulaga will take an adjustment. Same as every other year apparently.

Defense played well. Backups gave up big plays that hurt.

But let's breakdown this picture, the D alignment prior to Christian Michael's TD run off tackle to the right. That is the Packer #2 defense (3rd team in some cases) versus the #1 Seattle O except at RB. Caper's has dialed this up to stop the pass on 2nd and 18 and Seattle quite smartly checks to a run. As Dan points out, Means blows a tackle/force attempt mid-run that would have helped. But what happens before that is more telling.

That's typical Capers, 4 guys in the box, and only 1 of them a decent run defender (Jolly)... the run is never even a consideration - 43 yds later it isn't either.

Capers routinely abandons any pretense of controlling the LOS or the middle of the field - it is fundamentally unsound football.

It isn't like a battlefield tactic of inviting a middle attack, and enveloping... giving up ground may be a viable strategy in military theory, but in football, real estate matters.

Capers is very unsound in what he does.

[pbmax]

Re: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...l=1#post735037

[All directions here are from computer screen or offensive perspective]

Its an outside zone, they are cutting the backside (left) and Francois (MLB over nose) jumps to the left. Without occupying a blocker, he takes himself out of the play.

Daniels on left beats the cut block but is too late to make a play in the backfield and trails the play.

Lattimore, who is aligned left for reasons that are not clear is at a traditional LB depth for a pass play. But when Frenchy jumps left, there are two LBs on the weak side. Lattimore is signaling to a DB and misses the snap.

Jolly has the biggest failure as he gets driven off the ball and out of the hole. If Jolly cannot be counted on standing up to single blocking then get your wist on, season on D is over.

Moses is OLB left and reacts slowly to play, does not flatten out down the line and chase. About as unlike Matthews as possible. Because he is late and because Lattimore was late as well, Unger is blocking Lattimore at the depth Moses retreats to to chase. When he encounters the trash, he retreats further and is farther and is useless.

Execution. Not size.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yes, Russell Wilson and Seattle's 1st team offense dominated us to the tune of 4 first downs in Wilson's 6 drives after the opening drive. Some against the second string defense. That's just a manhandling. The 3 first half points pales just a little in comparison to the 35 points/game Seattle was averaging this preseason and the 38 points/game they averaged in their last 6 games last year, but let's classify it as a manhandling.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/a-deep-production-line-on-packers-defense-b9982300z1-220909991.html

The starting group of Raji, Ryan Pickett and C.J. Wilson had a few hiccups in the early going, allowing quarterback Russell Wilson to escape for a 13-yard run and hit a deep ball to receiver Doug Baldwin.

But on first and goal from the 9, Robert Turbin was stopped for no gain, linebacker Clay Matthews sacked Wilson for a 9-yard loss and Turbin was knocked out of bounds at the 9 on third down.

From that point on, the defense gave up four first downs on six possessions against the No.1 offense. At the heart of the effort was a defensive line that blends veterans like Raji, Ryan Pickett, Johnny Jolly and C.J. Wilson with youngsters like Datone Jones, Mike Daniels and Jordan Miller.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's typical Capers, 4 guys in the box, and only 1 of them a decent run defender (Jolly)... the run is never even a consideration - 43 yds later it isn't either.

2nd and 18. It's not like they were playing the run on 2nd and 18 and gave up a big pass play. 2nd and 18 is precisely the time not to play run.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I thought Jolly had a poor performance. One blocker generally controlled him and he couldn't shake loose. I would not be surprised to see him cut.

[pbmax]

Capers is very unsound in what he does.

This I actually agree with to a degree. They have had difficulty plugging run leaks since 2010. But the biggest failure on this play is single blocked Johnny Jolly getting driven out of the hole.

If you play nickel, you are more vulnerable to the run, simply no way around it. Seahawks choose to attack the vulnerability. Packers failed to execute to keep it under a 9 yard run.

Jolly, Lattimore or Moses, if played better technique, could have limited the damage. You just need to keep it in the single digits to get a win here.

Unhappy with Jolly here but the other two are backups and their reactions aren't fast enough.

[wist43]

[All directions here are from computer screen or offensive perspective]
Its an outside zone, they are cutting the backside (left) and Francois (MLB over nose) jumps to the inside. Without occupying a blocker, he takes himself out of the play.

Daniels on left beats the cut block but is too late to make a play in the backfield and trails the play.

Lattimore, who is aligned left for reasons that are not clear is at a traditional LB depth for a pass play. But when Frenchy jumps left, there are two LBs on the weak side. Lattimore is signaling to a DB and misses the snap.

Jolly has the biggest failure as he gets driven off the ball and out of the hole. If Jolly cannot be counted on standing up to single blocking then get your wist on, season on D is over.

Moses is OLB left and reacts slowly to play, does not flatten out down the line and chase. About as unlike Matthews as possible. Because he is late and because Lattimore was late as well, Unger is blocking Lattimore at the depth Moses retreats to to chase. When he encounters the trash, he retreats further and is farther and is useless.

Execution. Not size.

Max, the alignment itself is fatally flawed... 2-nothing in the middle of the field - if the RB breaks the LOS - which is likely considering all the OL has to do is block 1 or 2 guys playside... then it becomes an open field situation b/c Capers has given them an open field.

Michael was never touched.

I don't blame the players here at all - not at all. The fault is all on Capers.

[pbmax]

snip
NEGATIVES
1st OL pass blocking

Think you mean run here.

[mraynrand]

This I actually agree with to a degree. They have had difficulty plugging run leaks since 2010. But the biggest failure on this play is single blocked Johnny Jolly getting driven out of the hole.

If you play nickel, you are more vulnerable to the run, simply no way around it. Seahawks choose to attack the vulnerability. Packers failed to execute to keep it under a 9 yard run.
Jolly, Lattimore or Moses, if played better technique, could have limited the damage. You just need to keep it in the single digits to get a win here.

Unhappy with Jolly here but the other two are backups and their reactions aren't fast enough.

so this is the part I don't get. Is Capers supposed to design a defense where he expects Jolly to get beat on a single block and two guys to blow their assignments? What does that look like?

[pbmax]

Max, the alignment itself is fatally flawed... 2-nothing in the middle of the field - if the RB breaks the LOS - which is likely considering all the OL has to do is block 1 or 2 guys playside... then it becomes an open field situation b/c Capers has given them an open field.

Michael was never touched.

I don't blame the players here at all - not at all. The fault is all on Capers.

Jolly got beat, man on man. No scheme or alignment change can help you there.

My only question about this alignment is Lattimore. Why does he jump around the center? If he engages Unger is ANY way, Lattimore flows unmolested directly to the ball even if he was late after signaling to his right.

[wist43]

This I actually agree with to a degree. They have had difficulty plugging run leaks since 2010. But the biggest failure on this play is single blocked Johnny Jolly getting driven out of the hole.

If you play nickel, you are more vulnerable to the run, simply no way around it. Seahawks choose to attack the vulnerability. Packers failed to execute to keep it under a 9 yard run.
Jolly, Lattimore or Moses, if played better technique, could have limited the damage. You just need to keep it in the single digits to get a win here.

Unhappy with Jolly here but the other two are backups and their reactions aren't fast enough.

That isn't even a nickel max - b/c they aren't taking a LB out, they're taking DL out. It's more like a penny defense.

I noticed Jolly got handled on that play, but if the only defense you have against a 43 yd gash for a TD is 1 DL holding up an entire side of the LOS - then something is seriously amiss in the thought process that puts that alignment on the field to begin with!!!

That's the problem... that alignment should never get on the field. It is unsound, and was shown to be unsound last night - just as it has been shown to be unsound over and over again as our Packers are consistently getting run over.

It's hard to watch, and I cringe at every presnap alignment Capers throws out there... he's a complete idiot that has to go.

[pbmax]

so this is the part I don't get. Is Capers supposed to design a defense where he expects Jolly to get beat on a single block and two guys to blow their assignments? What does that look like?

What wist wants is 3 DL. But that puts a safety on a WR. Pick your poison. Seahawks are running 3 WR, 1 TE and 1 RB. Something the Packers do a lot of.

Wilson counts and sees nickel and/or 3 CB. Chooses run and aligns the TE to FB. Its nothing clever, but the D needs to execute. I think Francois should not have jumped around the center. Once he does that he is useless. Jolly gets trashed meaning the RB has a clear path to the second level. if Jolly can hold ground, it squeezes the RB and brings help closer.

[wist43]

Jolly got beat, man on man. No scheme or alignment change can help you there.

My only question about this alignment is Lattimore. Why does he jump around the center? If he engages Unger is ANY way, Lattimore flows unmolested directly to the ball even if he was late after signaling to his right.

Of course alignment can help him there... if you have another DL on that side, or assigned to an adjacent gap, Jolly can bail the other way... or a LB can fill - but there isn't another DL, and there is no LB - it is Jolly on a complete island.

Yes I agree Jolly got handled on that play, but where is anybody else to that playside?? The answer is nowhere, b/c the alignment is unsound.