What we saw last night

[packer4life]

Can we please move on from the SAME discussion we have ad nauseum on this board regarding Capers hate for defensive lineman? I'd almost rather see 579 written all over the place

In other news, hook em Vince

[mraynrand]

Not wrong. Unsound maybe, but not wrong.

sound riposte

[wist43]

As PB has pointed out, the problem had to do with the execution - the players that you say are just fine failed in their assignments - two, if not three, of them.

That's bullshit... you're dead before the snap of the ball in that alignment against the run. You can think for yourself - look at that alignment, go back and look at the play - even if Jolly had won his battle, Michael would still have had plenty of running room. Maybe he doesn't take it the distance, maybe the extra time it takes him to read and get around Jolly affords the pursuit enough time to get in position to corral Michael - but even if that is the case, Michael still runs at least 15 years there.

It's an idiotic formation - always and forever.

You're putting those players in an impossible position - I don't judge the players guilty of anything except being put in a position to fail. That's entirely on Dom Capers.

Read Sun Tzu would ya!!!

It was one play, one exhibition game. Let's see how it all plays out.

If it were just one play in a meaningless preseason game - I wouldn't bitch... seriously, I wouldn't bitch. I would look at it and say WTF was he thinking... and write it off as trying something crazy just to see if it were crazy enough to work, but I wouldn't get my shorts in a twist over it.

I do get my shorts in a twist though b/c it isn't "just one play"!! It is all the time with this idiot... Capers wants to run the 2-4 as his base as much as possible.

Some teams throw it out there against us b/c -

1) We really are likely to throw.

2) Even if we do run, they can be reasonably assured that they can stop our running game with only 6 guys in the box.

I've erased all of last years games, but go back and look at some games if you still have them on your DVR. Capers version of the 2-4 is a disaster... he gets away with it against weak offenses, but against power teams - the results are nothing short of mind bending - yet, he keeps doing the same thing over and over.

We gave up 166 yds rushing last night.

Against SF in the playoff - take away every yard that Kapnerfucker gained (181), and we still gave up 142 yds rushing.

Week 1 against SF in the 30-22 beating, we gave up 186 yds rushing.

Week 3 against Sea we gave up 127 yds rushing - and that was before their rookie QB had his feet on the ground (remember the end of half 1-5 alignment??)

Week 5 against Indy - honorable mention b/c of the sheer stupidity of allowing Andrew Luck 362 yds passing, and Wayne 212 yds receiving... almost all of it in 1 half!!!

Week 12 against NYG - we gave up 147 yds rushing in a 38-10 ass whipping

Week 13 against Minn - we gave up 240 yds!!! 240 stinking yds rushing!!! AP or not, there's no excuse for that

Week 17 against Minn - we gave up 217 yds rushing!!! IN A GAME WE NEEDED, IN A GAME WE LOST, IN A GAME THAT COST US HOMEFIELD!!!

I already mentioned the SF playoff debacle - but it is worth reiterating - 323 MF'inf, stinking, disgusting, filthy, mind numbingly painful rushing yds allowed!!!! Wow, just F'ing wow!!!

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One preseason game??

I don't think so... this has been a festering mess for 2 years.

[wist43]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why you guys make excuses for that mess, is beyond me... I think Capers must be spiking your kool-aid or something.

If you're okay with giving up 166 yds rushing, and 217 yds rushing, and 323 yds rushing, and 240 yds rushing, and on and on... then Dom Capers is your DC for life

[wist43]

Can we please move on from the SAME discussion we have ad nauseum on this board regarding Capers hate for defensive lineman? I'd almost rather see 579 written all over the place

In other news, hook em Vince

LOL

Yes, our 2nd string QB should be everyones focus - perhaps you should start a thread??

I started a thread on something that will actually affect our season.

If VY is our starting QB for more than 1 or 2 games, we won't have a season, we will have a prelude to next years draft

[mraynrand]

You're putting those players in an impossible position - [B]I don't judge the players guilty of anything except being put in a position to fail. That's entirely on Dom Capers.

That's right, they have no accountability!! They're just victims!! LOL

[mraynrand]

If VY is our starting QB for more than 1 or 2 games, we won't have a season, we will have a prelude to next years draft

If only we had wisely picked up Colt McCoy! But, I forgot, TT doesn't want to win, doesn't care about the backup QB situation, and McCarthy would never put his players in a position to be successful anyway! LOL

[wist43]

That's right, they have no accountability!! They're just victims!! LOL

You're sounding more and more like a liberal every day - might I suggest a relaxing marijuana cigarette??

I've heard it has a calming effect

[Patler]

Special teams punt team, except Masthay, was God-Awful. From Slocum not having the correct players on the field, to Means' not coming back in bounds and the lousy lane coverage on punts, it was an all around debacle.

Is it just a coincidence that Jarrett Bush did not play?????

[Smeefers]

I just dont get why we continue to leave anyone who goes over the middle completely uncovered

For years, teams have been able to throw at will over the middle on us

Why can we not stop this?

The middle of the field is pretty hard to cover. Rodgers and Driver made a name for themselves going over the middle with those quick slants. What teams do to deter that is beat the piss out of the receiver when he goes over the middle. Make them hear footsteps. The other way is to drop LB's back in hopes that they pick em off or interrupt the catch with a bone crushing tackle or by sending your safety in to take away that slant. Of course, when you do that, you open up a whole other can of worms by leaving guys one on one or not having a strong pass rush.

The slant is one of the best routes you can run in the league if you have an accurate QB.

[Smeefers]

It wasn't just Jarrett Bush. At the game I started reading the names off the backs of the Jersey's and I didn't recognize any of them except Franklin. No Moses, No Lattimore... I don't think they played their starters on Special Teams.

[Smeefers]

It may have been a preseason game - but what we saw last night was simply a continuation of what we saw against power teams last year.

Our OL getting pushed around, MM calling his 3 running plays; Capers playing as small and soft as possible - giving up explosive plays all over the place...

Given the schemes we run, and the philosophies of the team - we are pretty much helpless against power teams. You would think that getting the living hell kicked out of you so many times, in the same way every time, would push you to consider that maybe there is something wrong with your approach, but that seems to have never crossed the minds of the brain trust at 1265.

Capers is a complete disaster... so nothing can be done for the defense until he is fired.

On offense, we might as well pass it every down and put it in Rodgers hands. We're a QB driven team - and need Rodgers to play lights out perfect every game.

The philosophies of this team on both sides of ball are fundamentally flawed. Against other finesse teams we're probably the SB champ every year; but against power teams we're helpless. They push us around and beat us up... and there's nothing we can do about it.

I think we have good enough players to compete, but the passive philosophies of the coaching staff negate the talent.

I have to think you're just trying to rile everyone up here. You're a smart guy, you know that these games are used as tools, not to win. MM rushed Lacey 3 times in a row while in obvious rushing formations against stop the run defenses. I think he might of called over and said "hey, we're gonna run the ball. Mind trying to stop us? I want to see what this back really has." He gave Harris every chance to "keep" his starting RB job and that kid fell on his face... err.. knee. What I saw that interested me is that Jolly was sprinkled in there during the first few snaps of the game and he played well. That tells me he's going to be a rotational guy for us and that it's no longer a question of whether he has a job or not. You know what else I saw? Finley is going to have a freaking amazing year. The dude is firing on all cylinders. Remember when we were talking about possibly having 3 1000 yard recievers? Ain't gonna happen, Finley is going to steal about 300 yards from each guy and blow them all out of the water. After the end of the 1st quarter, main Defensive players sat out. No more Mathews, Raji only sparingly, no more Picket, no more Hawk and SS took a seat as well. I'm more concerned about Hayward re-injuring his hammy than I am about any explosive plays or the final score.

Wist, do you honestly believe the preseason has anything to do with football other than player development? Do you think winning more preseason games means winning more regular season games? Do you think the two "#1's" going against one another is a good indicator of how they would play in the regular season? Do you believe that our team is trying to win preseason games? Do you think they should be trying to win preseason games? Do you think preseason games are where coaches should be testing out their schemes, their wrinkles, their trick plays? Are you concerned if our 3rd stringers give up big plays to their 3rd stringers?

Do you just not like capers? Is that it?

[denverYooper]

It wasn't just Jarrett Bush. At the game I started reading the names off the backs of the Jersey's and I didn't recognize any of them except Franklin. No Moses, No Lattimore... I don't think they played their starters on Special Teams.

Good catch on ST. I suppose they threw a bunch of bubble guys out there to help figure out the 75.

[wist43]

I have to think you're just trying to rile everyone up here. You're a smart guy, you know that these games are used as tools, not to win. MM rushed Lacey 3 times in a row while in obvious rushing formations against stop the run defenses. I think he might of called over and said "hey, we're gonna run the ball. Mind trying to stop us? I want to see what this back really has." He gave Harris every chance to "keep" his starting RB job and that kid fell on his face... err.. knee. What I saw that interested me is that Jolly was sprinkled in there during the first few snaps of the game and he played well. That tells me he's going to be a rotational guy for us and that it's no longer a question of whether he has a job or not. You know what else I saw? Finley is going to have a freaking amazing year. The dude is firing on all cylinders. Remember when we were talking about possibly having 3 1000 yard recievers? Ain't gonna happen, Finley is going to steal about 300 yards from each guy and blow them all out of the water. After the end of the 1st quarter, main Defensive players sat out. No more Mathews, Raji only sparingly, no more Picket, no more Hawk and SS took a seat as well. I'm more concerned about Hayward re-injuring his hammy than I am about any explosive plays or the final score.

Wist, do you honestly believe the preseason has anything to do with football other than player development? Do you think winning more preseason games means winning more regular season games? Do you think the two "#1's" going against one another is a good indicator of how they would play in the regular season? Do you believe that our team is trying to win preseason games? Do you think they should be trying to win preseason games? Do you think preseason games are where coaches should be testing out their schemes, their wrinkles, their trick plays? Are you concerned if our 3rd stringers give up big plays to their 3rd stringers?

Do you just not like capers? Is that it?

I don't care about winning a preaseason game - what I care about are schemes and alignments - especially on defense.

I pay less attention to the offense b/c MM, generally, is a passing game genius - and I don't question him at all in that area.

I do question his approach to running the ball - and the dismal results should have him questioning it as well. He has occassionally incorporated some power running plays, and when he has they've been successful - to whatever extent, but he's so married to his 3 zone plays, that he simply won't come off of them, and our running game suffers greatly as a result.

The other problem in the running game is "mobile OL". They draft guys that can hit a LB in the open field - at least some of the time, but stand no chance of getting any movement in the running game man for man - they're simply an underpowered group, and it shows. That is a philosophical weakness - and they've shown no inclination to change the template they use to procure OL.

We have a very poor OL. The players are average at best, but the philosphy makes everything worse.

On defense - what a mess.

I say that, while at the same time acknowledging I like a lot of the players. So yes, it comes down to Capers. The dismal results should be obvious to everyone, yet he is still our DC.

3 of the last 4 years our defense has been blown out of the playoffs. The one year we weren't was the SB year, which everyone clings to. I point to the facts that led to the SB win, and see that stretch as the outlier - the dismal defensive performances all around it as the trend. Homers cannot, will not, be honest with themselves and see that reality.

I gave a brief run down of some of the pathetic performances of this defense from last year - but the mess goes back further than that. The Arizona playoff debacle, the NYG ass whipping, and last years SF thrashing seem to flitter out of the minds of the homers as soon as draft time comes rolling along - then it's 'Optimism Happy-time', and prozac pills all around.

Our defense has produced 2 of the most embarrassing defensive performances in my memory as a Packer fan - setting the all-time record in passing yds allowed, and last years record setting performance by Kapernerfucker.

Throw in the 200+ yd performances by AP last year, and all of the other embarrassments Capers has thrown out there... how does this idiot still have a job?? I find it utterly amazing!!!

Not only does he still have his job - PackerRats worship the guy - and he has spraypaintedhair!!!

I rest my case

[Carolina_Packer]

last night didn't prove anything. sea took the game way more seriously than we did. proof was their insistence on playing their #1s so long, their chippiness, and pete carroll acting like a mad man. don't know if it was the plan or not, to only play AR one series, but when he got rolled-up on that one pass play i'm glad they did. the sf game will tell a lot more. it's a long season and things will evolve. we'll be the nfc north champs and then who knows.

Gary, I agree. This is the best labratory/test setting that MM has, besides practice to see what works and what doesn't. It's like Spring training baseball. A pitcher working on a new pitch who hasn't yet located it where he needs to and gets taken deep, and fans of the team saying, "what's wrong with our best pitcher?" Well, nothing. Because he is not going to throw that pitch in a regular season game, if he can't get it over for a strike. I think MM is willing to try different personnel groupings to put players in positions to see different things, against higher-level talent, so they gain the valuable experience, and the coaches have the tape with which to teach them. Like I quoted before, the only thing about pre-season that resembles the regular season is the ball. More times than not, you would like to see players win in one-on-one situations in the pre-season. Sometimes it's hard to judge play that requires coordination, such as a line blocking for a back. If there's no space, there's no space. However, if the back is in the open field, I want to see him make a defender miss, or break the tackle. That's how I see pre-season. The personnel groupings are so varied, and you're never going to see these combos again. As for the scheme; players play schemes. Their talent either allows them to make plays or not make plays. A different scheme with the same talent may not produce a different result.