The Official Gameweek Discussion thread: 2013 Season Opener: Packers v 49ers

[Iron Mike]

We'll be OK, as long as we keep our pad level down....

[bobblehead]

I know what you are getting at, but if he (fake) tucks the ball away and runs, he is a runner and I think the rule covers this already.

If he keeps and steps back to pass, he is a passer.

But what is he at the moment of the mesh? And what is he after he gives and does not run but is attempting to avoid contact with the unblocked DE?

Because that's when Suggs hit him and what Matthews says he's going to hit him.

If he is NOT faking having the ball he can't be hit. I rewatched the superbowl and yes, Suggs was borderline on many "hits", but he wasn't hitting him very hard, and again, if Kap holds his hands out and obviously doesn't have the ball he can't be hit. However, if you run that play and are a threat to keep it, you better make it VERY clear you don't have the ball if you don't want to be hit.

The flip side to this is as I said right after the last game. Its not that hard to defend. Yes, the QB is turned into an effective blocker because someone must be dedicated to him, but forcing the handoff and playing it normal is quite simple.

[pbmax]

Great read from Wilde on the help Dave Aranda (UW's new defensive coordinator) might have given to Dom Capers during a visit the two had this past Spring.

http://espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&id=9301&is_corp=1

And an even better read on how Aranda adjusted his defense to defend the read option in college:

http://xandolabs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=421:31utah-state-two-gapping-the-read-zone-game&catid=95:defense&Itemid=164

A little preview, Aranda does not think rushing all out to hit the QB on a read option play will end well and points not just to the Packers, but to the trouble the Ravens had in the second half of the Super Bowl as confirmation.

[pbmax]

Its not that hard to defend. Yes, the QB is turned into an effective blocker because someone must be dedicated to him, but forcing the handoff and playing it normal is quite simple.

But that is precisely WHY it works now in the pros. Aranda and Capers refer to it in the article I linked to above. At least since Lawrence Taylor and often well before that, ends in the pros have been asked to get upfield and put pressure on the QB. The read option, if an end gives the QB that quick of a read, will devastate the defense because that end has vacated one of two gaps and the O line is double teaming the only guy (DT) who could squeeze the interior one. Its 4 on 3 if the end gives you a quick read.

Unlike a traditional belly option (or triple option) you don't get to have your DT and DE play one assignment each versus the option.

Your DE is ignored and your DT is double teamed. You need time to get a linebacker into the area and bring a safety down the alley. Not to mention having the CB read to stop pitch/wide QB run.

[Pugger]

I'm bummed about the loss of Hayward. No surprise he's a scratch for the game, but I was looking forward to us having everyone back on D. I don't think House will do well as slot CB in the nickel. He is better on the outside, that means we will be putting a slow, inexperienced rookie in the slot. Better hope he's ready to stick it to Kaepernick.

Would Dom try Shields at nickel and slide House outside if Hyde doesn't show up? Gotta think he has some sort of backup escape plan ready for this one.

Isn't Shields the starter? I would think with Hayward out Hyde would be the nickel.

[mraynrand]

I didn't get a chance to read the articles, but it seems to me that:
1) The DE/OLB can be trained to read the RO, just like a lineman can smell out a screen. "Gee, I'm not being blocked, what could that mean?" (contain first, rush second)
2) Bringing various types of pressure (especially it seems a zone blitz) could significantly disrupt the play, without compromising coverage, and should be even more effective if there is a strong tendency for the RO to one side
3) Packers talked about having Matthews 'freelance' more. Could that mean having others 'rush' the passer and having Matthews available for zone blitzes - or at least for straight up interior pass rush, with OLB keeping contain? Seems that Matthews could stop the quick run or the fake (pass) and the OLBs then could contain the outside run (and/or pitch, where applicable).

[pbmax]

Blitzing is definitely an option and has been done, but there can be two problems.

One is that there are variations of the read option that can go backside. The version run most often on Packers was two playside options, Gore on dive to guard tackle gap and CK wide. You can have Gore head to backside Guard. A blitz to playside can be vulnerable to this.

Second, a blitz can vacate a zone and if they pass out of the mesh, its an easy completion.

[Cheesehead Craig]

What's the magic number for the defense again that rbaloha liked to point out? 795? I-94? 3 for $5?

[mraynrand]

Isn't Shields the starter? I would think with Hayward out Hyde would be the nickel.

and House would be the dime. Still, the nickels and Dime dbs aren't required to play any particular spot, just what suits them best. A lot of times the nickel comes in and plays outside corner, and your starting corner moves inside. I would think that with a premium placed on run defense and tackling, Hyde might just stay inside. Pack4life I think is right - if Mr. Hyde plays poorly you might have to have Shields play inside, House outside or go with Dr. Jennings as your extra defensive back (three safeties in nickel and dime).

? Is it for sure Burnett and Jennings at Safety to start? Who is the first safety on the depth chart....

[Tony Oday]

Every read option hit Kapernick hard. Don't worry about the toss hit the QB.

[wist43]

Great read from Wilde on the help Dave Aranda (UW's new defensive coordinator) might have given to Dom Capers during a visit the two had this past Spring.

http://espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&id=9301&is_corp=1

And an even better read on how Aranda adjusted his defense to defend the read option in college:

http://xandolabs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=421:31utah-state-two-gapping-the-read-zone-game&catid=95:defense&Itemid=164

A little preview, Aranda does not think rushing all out to hit the QB on a read option play will end well and points not just to the Packers, but to the trouble the Ravens had in the second half of the Super Bowl as confirmation.

Aranda is drawing up the response out of a 4-3 - that is a completely different animal than what the Packers should be putting on the field.

However, since we really don't have 3-4 personnel, it is advice we might have to take. Jolly might could fit the bill - and we have Pickett, but if either of those guys fails in their assignment, we're in big trouble on that given play.

The Ravens consistently hit Kapnerfucker, and whether that had an effect upon what the Niners were calling later in the game, I don't know - but I think that is the proper approach. Account for the QB on every snap, check him off the list as a runner, move on to your next responsibility, and contain him in the pocket.

If you're losing the LOS battle however, it simply doesn't matter what you're doing to counter the QB. We have enough firepower on the DL, that we should be able to fight them close enough to a draw that we force them to throw - but Capers hasn't shown any inclination to forcing them to do anything - he is reactionary, and he expects them to play the way he wants them to play, i.e. as if they are 100 pts behind, and the run simply does not matter.

Capers is our own worst enemy - I'll be shocked if he comes out and shows some determination to actually battle on the LOS. 3rd and 8 is a plausible run down for the Niners, but Capers will never, ever view it that way. He'll jump into his beloved 2-4, and we'll be in big trouble again.

[mraynrand]

Aranda is saying specifically NOT to target the QB, but to muddy the waters to get back the 4 on 4 matchup. Exotic pressures give the advantage to the QB. Give him no clean reads. 2 gap across the board. That's what I read.

I agree with the no clean reads. I like having Matthews set up inside more - esp if the OLBs play off more and read. Will be interesting to see how often Perry and Neal are at OLB with Matthews inside, if at all.

[Bossman641]

Aranda is saying specifically NOT to target the QB, but to muddy the waters to get back the 4 on 4 matchup. Exotic pressures give the advantage to the QB. Give him no clean reads. 2 gap across the board. That's what I read.

I agree with the no clean reads. I like having Matthews set up inside more - esp if the OLBs play off more and read. Will be interesting to see how often Perry and Neal are at OLB with Matthews inside, if at all.

That's how I read it as well. Basically asking the DE/OLB to wait as long as possible to make any up the field moves and instead try to stretch the play out.

[mraynrand]

And an even better read on how Aranda adjusted his defense to defend the read option in college:

http://xandolabs.com/index.php?optio...nse&Itemid=164

That is a difficult read. Lots of insider terminology and jargon. I think i need a Tylenol

[pbmax]

In the first half the Ravens were sending a safety down on every read option play into the alley of that play. In a position to force on a give but free enough to pursue the QB wide. You should be able to pass on such an alignment and CK missed a couple of opportunities early. But they took full advantage in the 2nd Half.

I don't think the Packers crashed as hard towards CK necessarily, but Walden was scraping inside to squeeze the give (he did not get off these blocks well enough) but help to the outside was late in coming. Specifically, the 56 yard TD, Jones got fascinated by the give, hesitated, and whether CK saw this or not, left the entire wide right side (offense) open.

The way the 49ers double teamed Raji, it was really a 3 on 2 play. QB, RB, blocking FB going against an ILB and an OLB. Aranda's advice would apply here. If you are going to run that alignment, you must NOT charge into the backfield. You need the uncertainty to allow the safety and CB to get over to help. That makes the matchup 3 on 3.