Bad locker room in Miami?

[pbmax]

No, I wouldn't want Richie Incognito as my neighbor, but the low-hanging fruit here is the boilerplate "he bullied because he is a racist."

Really? What other Black teammate did he persecute? Where is the line of his victims over the past nine years? Why isn't he universally hatred in the lockerroom?

Who are you arguing with this? Has anyone claimed to be interested in the bullying and harassment only if it was racially motivated? And is a lack of support for institutionalized racism really a mitigating factor here?

He is a Pro Bowl caliber player who was on several teams Do Not Draft lists. He has been with 3 teams in his professional career and is about to be dumped by the second of those three. The team that did not dump him? He played for 3 games for the Bills.

He is the definition of an asshat. No matter what degree his racism ranks him.

[pbmax]

In 2013, 'Nigger' is not acceptable by Whites or Blacks equally alike. It's not acceptable in popular music either. I think one standard should apply to all.

One standard for language? Incognito is some kind of victim because he is too dumb to decode language in a social setting? That's a pretty low level to hold someone to Kiwon.

Context is king. Try this as an experiment for the next two weeks and report back the results.

Refer to any females you meet (older or younger) as "Sweetie". Refer to all males as "boy". See what diverse reactions you get and let us know how it goes. Language is a two way street and the person you are communicating with is half the equation.

I guarantee you people will care. Same as some of Incognito's teammates cared. Politeness and the locker room code might prevent us from knowing, but they care.

[Kiwon]

How Richie Incognito became NFL’s No. 1 villain

http://nypost.com/2013/11/05/how-richie-incognito-became-nfls-no-1-villain/

Yeah, look at them. The spider and the fly. Do you psychologists know how many hours these two spent together? Most people with any degree of coping skills know how to handle being stuck with a difficult person. Was Incognito a dangerous psyco? Did Martin do what he had to do or did he overreact? Who knows until the full story comes out.

[run pMc]

IIRC Kerry Collins and Riley Cooper got a pretty chilly receptions for their use of the N-word a solid decade apart. Rightly or no, if Incognito gets the same treatment I won't be surprised.
The bullying angle is awfully hard to avoid. If you prefer, replace "bully" with "abusive", since that's what his language and behavior suggests. It seems he's been exposed to this by his father, and it's what he feels compelled to perpetuate on others.

Martin has a role in this as well. Why didn't he say no to the Vegas money, especially since he wasn't invited?

One needs therapy and medication, the other needs assertiveness training.

[Kiwon]

One standard for language? Incognito is some kind of victim because he is too dumb to decode language in a social setting? That's a pretty low level to hold someone to Kiwon.

Context is king. Try this as an experiment for the next two weeks and report back the results.

Refer to any females you meet (older or younger) as "Sweetie". Refer to all males as "boy". See what diverse reactions you get and let us know how it goes. Language is a two way street and the person you are communicating with is half the equation.

I guarantee you people will care. Same as some of Incognito's teammates cared. Politeness and the locker room code might prevent us from knowing, but they care.

No, one standard for THAT racially-charge word.

It's 2013, not 1965. Change HAS come or hadn't you noticed?

[pbmax]

I think you will get one standard for that word when similar percentages of both groups agree on proper context. On a smaller scale, among friends, that probably already exists. Larger scale, like a football team with diverse backgrounds? Likelier to take longer.

However, I would bet the term "half-n****r" will take even longer to gain acceptance because its a specific slur against mixed race parentage. I doubt many people who use this term think its benign.

And let's use Incognito's term to bring this back around to the main topic. Incognito was using that term while communicating a threat of violence. And it wasn't done in the rowdy environs of the lockerrom. He sent him a text message in April while trying to collect $15,000 for a Vegas trip Martin didn't want to be a part of. Forget about the racial aspect to this, how about extortion?

[pbmax]

Profile on Martin from his High School coach.

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2013/11/05/jonathan-martins-high-school-coach-bullies-usually-go-after-people-like-him/

[KYPack]

Kiwon, you are a great poster on this forum.

On this issue, you are out your mind.

[Noodle]

You know Keith Richards snorted the ashes of his cremated father, right?

Your history lesson is basically right......but the BS talk on a football team knows no racial boundaries. They're brothers fighting together every week.

But if on a football team, admist all the N-words flying around by Black teammates, a foul-mouthed Richie Incognito says the same things, do you really think they care? N-word is off the table for Whites but people of all races can call each other "bitches" and "M-Fers". Those insults are acceptable by all races?

Kiwon, I know from other posts that you're a person of good will with your own life experiences that inform your views. But I'm not sure you've been a non-black guy in a majority black football locker room. I was. In the South. I heard the N word used all the time by my black teammates when talking to each other. I never took that as permission that I could use it, and neither I nor my white teammates (even the huge dudes) ever did. In fact, I remember a brawl nearly breaking out when a white teammate talked about the movie Pumping Iron and its star, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Seems a black teammate heard only the last part of Arnold's last name, and instantly, all that teammate brotherhood went out the window. We got the misunderstanding cleared up without a punch thrown, but it was a near thing.

As to Keef, he later admitted he was just talking shite about snorting his old man's ashes, but I'm not sure I buy his disavowal.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Kiwon, you are a great poster on this forum.

On this issue, you are out your mind.

He must be, because I kinda agree with him. There has been a rush to judgement.

If we took all of Madtown's words at face value, he too would be banned from society. Wait a sec, guess that is a very bad example.

It is possible that Incognito (what a name!) is a racist, evil guy. I'm not ruling that out. He also might be a joker with a dark sense of humor and insensitive. What he was did was bad, for sure, I just don't know where to put him on the scale. I for one am not damning his soul to hell.

[Noodle]

What he was did was bad, for sure, I just don't know where to put him on the scale. I for one am not damning his soul to hell.

Yeah, but Blue Dog, you dry hump people's legs and eat your own feces, so how much weight am I supposed to give your opinion?

BTW, great link, PB, to the High School coach, who sounds like a great guy (wish I had him instead of the rock head who coached me). Kind of confirms my thoughts about a guy with Martin's background trying to deal with a very different world.

[hoosier]

He must be, because I kinda agree with him. There has been a rush to judgement.

If we took all of Madtown's words at face value, he too would be banned from society. Wait a sec, guess that is a very bad example.

It is possible that Incognito (what a name!) is a racist, evil guy. I'm not ruling that out. He also might be a joker with a dark sense of humor and insensitive. What he was did was bad, for sure, I just don't know where to put him on the scale. I for one am not damning his soul to hell.

He could be one or the other (could be meat, could be cake) but Incognito definitely smells like a turd. As for the N word thing, I am sure most if not all of us would be happy to see it disappear from all walks of life. But anyone who cannot grasp the difference between a white guy saying it to a black guy and a black guy saying a variation ("nigga," not "nigger") to another black guy is just stubbornly refusing to use their brain.

[Zool]

Guy is a very good NFL player who can't stick with a team and couldn't stick with a team in college. If you're an exceptional athlete you get chance after chance before people give up on you. It's pretty clear he's an asshole.

[falco]

No, I wouldn't want Richie Incognito as my neighbor, but the low-hanging fruit here is the boilerplate "he bullied because he is a racist."

I know you'll dismiss my opinion anyway, but from what I've seen you're the only one playing up the race card. Most of the reporting I've seen on the issue has made 'bullying' the hot button topic here.

[NewsBruin]

Oh, shit. If this PFT/Miami Herald story is correct, we'll have to ask who ordered the Code Red.