Bad locker room in Miami?

[KYPack]

Oh, shit. If this PFT/Miami Herald story is correct, we'll have to ask who ordered the Code Red.

Yeah, this could be "A FEW Good Men" part deaux.

Is Incognito's agent trying a hail Mary to save his fat client?

Or is the NFLPA lurking around behind this leak?

Tune in tomorrow Dolphin fans.

[George Cumby]

Oh, shit. If this PFT/Miami Herald story is correct, we'll have to ask who ordered the Code Red.

This just keeps getting better and better!

If, for no other reason than giving us something else to talk about other than 12's clavicle.

[pbmax]

Something doesn't jibe with that story. If the message was to toughen up, I can see the voice mail being a misguided attempt to get him to react.

But if the message was get your butt to OTAs, its not in that voice mail.

[Joemailman]

This just keeps getting better and better!

[Guiness]

That would be some crazy stuff, but I can't say I'm surprised, teams are looking for ways to get around those 'optional' practices

[Kiwon]

I agree that he is not likely an overt racist, seems like he just uses it as an insult of convenience, and would refer to anyone he butts heads with by a derogatory racial slur.

As far as him 'getting along' with Mike Wallace and other people saying he's a good guy to have around, well, guys like that can be. I spent a year and a half in a Russian town that was a former military base and coal mining region. When I went out, I didn't mind having some pretty dodgy characters with me, and some of their antics were pretty funny. Be friendly with them, buy a couple of rounds, keeps anyone from messing with you. Doesn't make them decent human beings.

Actually, I can relate a bit. I was in a rural part of Russia in 1995 when the economy was completely devastated. Whole factories sat idle due to a lack of raw materials. Seeing an American was a wonder to many and they were very suspicious. We were surveilled and people we spoke to were immediately interviewed by the government. Everyone knew where "the American" was, day or night.

You could tell that there were a few guys who wouldn't mind taking on an American in front of their friends. That's when you are glad that your "friends" can run interference for you. Yeah, sometimes it pays to have some sketchy characters on your side.

[Kiwon]

Kiwon, I know from other posts that you're a person of good will with your own life experiences that inform your views. But I'm not sure you've been a non-black guy in a majority black football locker room. I was. In the South. I heard the N word used all the time by my black teammates when talking to each other. I never took that as permission that I could use it, and neither I nor my white teammates (even the huge dudes) ever did. In fact, I remember a brawl nearly breaking out when a white teammate talked about the movie Pumping Iron and its star, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Seems a black teammate heard only the last part of Arnold's last name, and instantly, all that teammate brotherhood went out the window. We got the misunderstanding cleared up without a punch thrown, but it was a near thing.

As to Keef, he later admitted he was just talking shite about snorting his old man's ashes, but I'm not sure I buy his disavowal.

That's true, I don't have the locker room cred, but I do know the South and there are many, many people of both races who are ready to get past racial misunderstandings and are united in their opposition to any use of the N-word.

I'm in that camp and I don't mind highlighting the double standards and hypocrisy. Americans need to change their minds on this issue and quit trying to justify the unjustifiable. That word is unredeemable.

[Kiwon]

Oh, shit. If this PFT/Miami Herald story is correct, we'll have to ask who ordered the Code Red.

You knew there was more to this story than what the media was first reporting. The facts didn't add up.

But, holy crap, how'd you like to be a pupil in Richie Incognito's 'tough love' program?

[Patler]

Yeah, his alleged racism seems to be the issue and if he was in fact this overt racist I say that he would not have the support of any of his Dolphin teammates or had lasted in the league for 9 years. Do you actually think in today's age of grievance and instant communication that Black athletes would remain silent and tolerate such things without complaint?

The narrative doesn't ring true to me at this point. There's more to the story, particularly on Martin's side.

No, the issue is his general treatment of a team mate. Racism is only a part of the larger issue. Conduct issues go all the way back to his days at Nebraska according to a former team mate who was on TV this morning. He noted Incognito bullying a walk-on to the point that the player left in the middle of a practice when he had finally had enough. The player later returned and finished a career as a contributing player. It was noted that Incognito has been suspended or dismissed from every team he has been with since he entered college, except Buffalo where he was for only a month.

You keep saying we have never heard about the issues with Incognito before. We have, every place he has been. Dismissals and suspensions have been for conduct, failing to conform to team standards and other general categories. We have not been told the details.

Can a racist survive in the NFL for 9 years? I think he can. The veil of secrecy surrounding what goes on within a team is indeed strong. Fringe players won't complain about others for fear of losing their opportunities. Good players won't complain about others for fear of being viewed as wimps or complainers, not team guys, etc., all of which can reduce their marketability. If a player is good enough to help a team win, he will be given opportunity after opportunity, and absolutely abhorrent behavior will be tolerated so long as it is kept somewhat quiet. Winning means money for everyone; players, coaches and owners. Good players who are jerks are tolerated until they become a major distraction. Then they are more or less quietly shown the door.

The simple fact that a lot of fans do not want to accept is that a lot of good athletes are really not very nice people. Some are fantastic, but with rosters the size of the NFL, repugnant characters are not uncommon. Unfortunately, a lot of them can help you win on the field, so they are accepted or at least tolerated.

Finally, the life of a professional athlete, NFL players maybe even more than others, is such that a great many of them have done things they would prefer be kept quiet. As a result, they tolerate conduct from others that "normal" people in "normal" jobs would not tolerate.

In short, there are a lot of incentives for players to put up with a lot from others, and they do.

[Tony Oday]

Shawn Merriman, Antre Rolle, Jared Allen and Ricky Williams all basically said on NFL Network Martin is a man and never should have let it get this far.

[pbmax]

Shawn Merriman, Antre Rolle, Jared Allen and Ricky Williams all basically said on NFL Network Martin is a man and never should have let it get this far.

I love that Ricky Williams is talking like this, considering he abandoned the same Dolphins by abruptly retiring before the season rather than face his drug suspension.

[red]

well,sounds like pilbin and the rest of the staff will be gone soon

front office guys should lose their jobs too

[Patler]

I think many are not looking at Martin for where he really is in his career. He is neither a rookie who should shut up and take as some argue, nor a veteran who should have been a man and stopped it before it went too far.

I suspect he believed things would be better when his rookie year was done. He has been described as a man who doesn't like to make waves. There is nothing wrong with that. From what has been said, it doesn't seem he was around the team much in the off-season, only when he had to be. So basically he tolerated some off season things and whatever went on in August and September before taking his stand in October. Some reports said he did complain to the coaches about some things that happened.

We are seeing several things that we see in many criminal cases, harassment cases etc. We have the alleged perpetrator and his supporters making him out to be a victim, and we have some blaming the purported victim. All very typical.

Martin seems like a guy who has options, and some who lived and breathed for careers as NFL players may not understand someone who can take it or leave it. Some will protect the NFL at all costs because that is all they had or expect to have. That includes former players. They view a whistleblower as a weak link, and will gladly blame him.

Martin did take a stand and stop what was being done. He left, removing himself from the situation. By doing so, he exposed his team and the NFL. Those blaming him for not taking a stand and stopping what was being done to him are blind. He did take a stand and stop it. Those blaming him are really upset with how he chose to do it.

[pbmax]

Can a racist survive in the NFL for 9 years? I think he can. The veil of secrecy surrounding what goes on within a team is indeed strong. Fringe players won't complain about others for fear of losing their opportunities. Good players won't complain about others for fear of being viewed as wimps or complainers, not team guys, etc., all of which can reduce their marketability. If a player is good enough to help a team win, he will be given opportunity after opportunity, and absolutely abhorrent behavior will be tolerated so long as it is kept somewhat quiet. Winning means money for everyone; players, coaches and owners. Good players who are jerks are tolerated until they become a major distraction. Then they are more or less quietly shown the door.

Case in point: Matt Light and Aaron Hernandez. Light played with Hernandez for three years I think. After retirement, and after Hernandez was arrested, Light gave his local paper quotes that he believed in nothing that Hernandez did. While it is rare to hear a Patriot talk about the team in such candid terms, it was hardly a controversial stand. In fact, it seemed damn convenient to tell that world that AFTER leaving the team and after a crime had been committed.

A couple of weeks after the quotes appeared, Light denied even speaking to the reporter in question. Not misquoted, he claimed he was busy with a camp for a youth group he was involved with and could not have been reached. The reporter gave the date and time he spoke to Light which coincided with the children's visit to a television station. A visit Light chaparoned. The reporters and Light talked for 4 hours face to face.

The locker room culture (plus Belichick) can silence a retired player to the point of being made to look like an idiot.

[Patler]

well,sounds like pilbin and the rest of the staff will be gone soon

front office guys should lose their jobs too

Ya, it's difficult to think of a scenario in which this doesn't fall back on them. No matter which facts you believe, Philbin and his staff are the likely fall-guys who will be sacrificed for the public.