Official 49er Playoff Week Discussion Thread

[wist43]

There is no way the Packers could support the 3 LB alignment you describe against the pass. The middle of the field would be wide open. The safeties would not hold up. That 3rd DL would have to provide super human improvement to the pass rush and that guy isn't on the roster this year.

The problem is that the Packers are not good enough in base to defend the 3rd receiver OR a RB out of the backfield with a LB. In nickel or dime they are not good enough to shut down a running game, pass rush and defend deep with the same personnel. So the O can simply choose what they wish to attack based on Packer personnel if they feel its advantageous.

You may very well see a 3rd DL in some passing downs (esp against the 49ers) but you will see too many completed passes.

Its not the alignment or sub package. Its these players, in this scheme.

Now could a different scheme match them better? I am willing to entertain that thought about the OLBs/DL and maybe the ILBs. But not the backend, especially not the safeties.

Could someone else go mad scientist and cover up the flaws? Short term yes, but eventually the film would reveal the scam.

They need health, better personnel (Jones will help as a second year player) and Capers might have to break up the scheme if through attrition the players no longer fit. The playoffs may be interesting this year, their play has picked up lately but not enough yet.

That is certainly a plausible personnel grouping.

To be sure you couldn't run that against some teams, and some personnel groupings, but we're talking about subpackages and matchups.

Matthews can certainly drop - hell, Raji picked off a pass in the NFC championship game and ran it in for a TD. It's as much about showing different looks, versatility, and sending a variety of rushers from different gaps and angles.

Depending on down and distance, and the personnel group the offense has on the field - a front 6 of D. Jones, Raji, Daniels as DL; and Matthews, Neal, and Perry as LB's is certainly plausible. Nothing wrong with that personnel grouping at all on 2nd and 6. You'd still be playing a nickel, and you'd have a lot more beef on the field to deal with the run.

I'd much rather see that alignment than having Brad Jones tasked with taking on a G should, heaven forbid, the offense actually run the ball.

Beyond the x's and o's of just one snap, the overall philosphy of trying to find more ways to get a steady diet of 3 DL on the field most of the time allows you to keep Raji and Daniels fresher, and more impactful in pass rush situations later in the game. As it is, Raji is completely miscast and wasted as a 2-gap DL.

In short, I'd try to find ways to maximize the talents of the players I had, instead of pigeon holing everyone into that mindnumbing 2-4 Capers loves to run.

If Capers is in fact fired, it will be primarily b/c of his overuse of the 2-4, and the misuse of front seven personnel in general.

[mraynrand]

Depending on down and distance, and the personnel group the offense has on the field - a front 6 of D. Jones, Raji, Daniels as DL; and Matthews, Neal, and Perry as LB's is certainly plausible. Nothing wrong with that personnel grouping at all on 2nd and 6. You'd still be playing a nickel, and you'd have a lot more beef on the field to deal with the run.

Wha? I just said that and you said it's mismatched

It's as much about showing different looks, versatility, and sending a variety of rushers from different gaps and angles.

You pick your poison. Chicago has 4-5 weapons. you don't get there with pressure and even Cutler will pick you apart. With their improved line, you have to acknowledge that you might not get there. Thus Capers plays off coverage, tries to limit the damage and hopes someone can make a play - either a d-back with a great break on the ball, or pressure from a lineman, or Hawk closing fast and solid on the check down.

[mraynrand]

If Capers is in fact fired, it will be primarily b/c of his overuse of the 2-4, and the misuse of front seven personnel in general.

I think the organization is going to give him a break knowing that his front seven consisted too often of guys like Mulumba, Palmer, Lattimore, injured Perry and injured Neal

[mraynrand]

There is no way the Packers could support the 3 LB alignment you describe against the pass. The middle of the field would be wide open. The safeties would not hold up. That 3rd DL would have to provide super human improvement to the pass rush and that guy isn't on the roster this year.
.

I think you could do a 2-4 on a passing down, or even increase to 3 DL if two of your LBs were Matthews and Francois and they were in pass coverage. But then you'd like healthy Perry or Neal to provide pass rush from that other OLB spot.

[wist43]

Wha? I just said that and you said it's mismatched

You were referring to 2 DL, and Perry and Neal outside as LB's. I was referring to a 3 man line, i.e. D. Jones, Raji, and Daniels, with Perry, Neal, and Matthews.

If Matthews is out, then throw in Mulumba. If you want to go to a true 3-4, bring in Brad Jones to spy the middle of the field.

Just about anything is better than what Capers is doing.

[denverYooper]

So if Perry and Neal are not LBs, when they are on the field with "2 linemen" are they linemen or misplaced LBs?? Why mention Brad Jones as part of the 2-4, when the OLBs/DL-turned-LBs are really the issue (not that I'm saying Jones is any good, but he's an ILB, which is irrelevant to the 2-4 lineman debate)

We'll see the 49ers run a similar 2-4 with Brooks, Smith, McDonald, and Smith. They make it look much better because the Smiths are so good. They can play run or pass pretty effectively out of that look.

[Infamous]

Absolutely. Oversized hat, pin-head, pencil-legs must be licking his chops.

F'n hilarious

[pbmax]

If Matthews, Perry and Neal are you LBs and you drop two into coverage, I am simply going to run my RB or slot guy across your zone and be open every single time. If you bring a safety down to run some kinda Cover 1 or 3 with 3 across underneath, I run both receivers through your zones and throw to the one that doesn't draw the safety.

If your goal is to force a pass, you will succeed. If your goal is to prevent big yardage, I don't see how that coverage succeeds. You at least need Hawk out there. Playing in the middle is not the same as forcing slot receivers wide or fanning out to play the flat for an OLB.

Your 3-3 has the same problem that the current 2-4 and 3-4 have. It can't do everything well. And the Packers don't have the players to mix it up from the same personnel package.

I think Jones and Boyd get you closer to having a D line than can morph, but its not there yet.

The single biggest failure, aside from big plays in the passing game, is the 3-4 run defense. They haven't forced many 2nd and longs this year.

[Infamous]

+1

still several days out to be accurate. hopefully it's wrong. either way this game is icing on the cake. the season was made last weekend.

so just "happy to be here?"
sounds sorta ncaa march madness sweet sixteen-like..

[denverYooper]

Bobble will be happy about this: the Packers are going to practice outside tomorrow and Friday (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/238381301.html).

After staying inside in 2007 and then taking a beating from the New York Giants in frigid temperatures at Lambeau Field in the NFC Championship game, coach Mike McCarthy has changed his tune and started practicing outdoors with a cold game approaching.

Most of the players aren't thrilled about practicing outdoors and don't go out dressed in sleeves and shorts to help prepare them for Sunday. They dress warm and practice the way they normally would. The advantage is that they know how the ball will feel in their hands and travel through the air. They get a sense for how the footing will be.

[wist43]

If Matthews, Perry and Neal are you LBs and you drop two into coverage, I am simply going to run my RB or slot guy across your zone and be open every single time. If you bring a safety down to run some kinda Cover 1 or 3 with 3 across underneath, I run both receivers through your zones and throw to the one that doesn't draw the safety.

If your goal is to force a pass, you will succeed. If your goal is to prevent big yardage, I don't see how that coverage succeeds. You at least need Hawk out there. Playing in the middle is not the same as forcing slot receivers wide or fanning out to play the flat for an OLB.

Your 3-3 has the same problem that the current 2-4 and 3-4 have. It can't do everything well. And the Packers don't have the players to mix it up from the same personnel package.

I think Jones and Boyd get you closer to having a D line than can morph, but its not there yet.

The single biggest failure, aside from big plays in the passing game, is the 3-4 run defense. They haven't forced many 2nd and longs this year.

It's like playing pass on 1st and 10 in your base 3-4, except that instead of having 2 ILB's on the field, you have another safety or DB. As I said, you're still playing nickel there.

And you don't have to have Perry and Neal, with Matthews, you could have a cover LB like Brad Jones. It's not static, it's never static. It's all sub-packages.

At least with more beef on the field you're better equipped to deal with the run at the LOS, and you're better positioned to offer up a varied pass rush. If you're going to go to playing a nickel as your base - which is essentially what Capers is doing by playing a 2-4 most of the time, I'd much rather have more size out there in the front 6.

As for the Niners, Capers did play a lot more 3-4 in the 1st game this year, but was of course clueless about how to stop Kapernick and the passing game. I would commit the front six/seven to the run and pass rush, and focus on Boldin and Davis in coverage. They're going to make a few plays here and there, but if we can hold them to around 100 yds rushing, and 250 passing, we might have a shot.

I would feel a lot better about matching up with the Niners in my proposed 3-3 nickel on 2nd and 6 as opposed to Capers standard 2-4 which has Hawk and Jones trying to take on and disengage from offensive linemen, at least the bigger bodies in front of them would offer some protection.

To that I would add a healthy rotation of Pickett, CJ Wilson, and Worthy on would-be run downs to keep Raji, Daniels, and Jones fresh for pass rushing duties - of course Capers doesn't think any down is a run down, so that's wishful thinking.

[KYPack]

The issue is not being able to negate or control the interior line. We have one 2-gap DL on the roster, although some argue that CJ Wilson is a decent 2-gapper. He can 2-gap from the DE position, but not inside.

Good to see you are back at it, Wist.

CJ Wilson can 2 gap?

I know this got started somewhere else, but NO, he can't.

Shit, he's happy when he is active for a game, let alone two gap from a 5 tech?

That was somebodies fantasy in an old thread or something.

Those 20 fronts drive me nuts, but Capers is trying to get some coverage help, deep in the hole and all the underneath routes. A 30 front gives him one less hand in coverage so he's trying to scheme things to get him some help back there. The 20 front in short yardage have mainly been a disguise, he still had 8 in the box.

[woodbuck27]

Not good. 20s with wind chill would have been fine. This old body is not as good with single digits as it used to be.

Suggestion:

Pack a decent sleeping bag for you and your honey.

GO PACK GO !

[Joemailman]

Packers shut down 49ers running game the first time, but got torched by Kaepernick.

The bad news: Matthews and Jolly won't be out there.

The good news: Burnett and Richardson at Safety are better than Jennings and McMillian. Tramon is playing a lot better now than he was then.

Not sure if the good news outweighs the bad news.

[woodbuck27]

Wha? I just said that and you said it's mismatched



You pick your poison. Chicago has 4-5 weapons. you don't get there with pressure and even Cutler will pick you apart. With their improved line, you have to acknowledge that you might not get there. Thus Capers plays off coverage, tries to limit the damage and hopes someone can make a play - either a d-back with a great break on the ball, or pressure from a lineman, or Hawk closing fast and solid on the check down.

Just a heads up:

The San Fran 49ers mraynrand the 2013 Bears are packing for trips to the Caribbean, Hawaii, Mexico...etc and trying to forget last Sunday's loss to the Packers.

The Green Bay Packers are playing the 49ers in Lambeau field this week...Sun. Jan. 5, 2014 @ 3:40 CST.