DOES THIS MEAN WE'RE SITTING ON OUR ASS AND DOING NOTHING WITH COACHES ????

[Bretsky]

Calling out the fact men.

I thought the last time we made coaching changes they were made approximately 7-10 days after the season. Does that sound right ? If that's the case it appears the status quo remains

Two comments:

1. I never expected MM to have the stones to replace Dom. And if he did he would have been smart enough to do it right away because DC is a very key coaching position and several very qualifed DC's who da rats would probably have liked to see in Green Bay (such as Ray Horton or Romeo Crennell) are off the board now

2. What the F'ck............MM.........we suck and continue to suck more on special teams..injuries or not....in many key spots during the season....we break down

I lose plenty of respect for MM if he doesn't send Slocum on his way

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't get the hate for Slocum. Are people confusing him with Bob Slowik?

[red]

yup, i'm not surprised one bit

thats why i brought up earlier in the year the idea that maybe we need to get rid of MM

special teams is a massive glaring hole year after year, yet he's too loyal to his friend to fix the problem

[mraynrand]

Other than miserable teams scuttling coaches, GMs, and entire front offices, where are you guys seeing successful teams dropping coaches in the off season?

Do people understand that this team is one of the 3-5 best since Thompson and Stubby started working together? Even so, they scuttled an entire defensive staff, but that was almost unprecedented. I'm not saying it's all roses, but perhaps perspectives have become totally skewed.

My view is that with the number of injuries, it's virtually impossible to assess some of these performances.

If nothing else, is there some perspective from some successful retired GMs or coaches? - I'm seeing nothing of value in these repetitious, tireless and tiresome rants.

[pbmax]

I don't get the hate for Slocum. Are people confusing him with Bob Slowik?

He has had a succession of the worst coverage teams and a slightly better selection of return teams (mainly due to Cobb) in his tenure. His best year was 8th with extra-ordinary team health.

He refuses to let his kickers use outside consultants (who might have avoided or interrupted Crosby's epic slide in 2012) when his kickers could clearly benefit from them. (Jon Ryan made it clear how much those coaches can help-though to be fair, in Ryan's case McCarthy and the ST predecessor said no to the consultant)

His has three positive calling cards: Crosby's onside kicks, the tackling of both his kickers and his fakes. But the bread and butter return and coverage teams are awful and consistently so. The team is not talent challenged, so I have seen no coherent explanation of why his units suffer worse from team injuries than other franchises.

[mraynrand]

The team is not talent challenged, so I have seen no coherent explanation of why his units suffer worse from team injuries than other franchises.

Packers are consistently younger and in too many season, consistently more injured than other teams. Both youth and revolving doors on ST I think have seriously hurt them.

No outside consultant? So remind me how did Crosby end up overcoming his slump?

[Fritz]

yup, i'm not surprised one bit

thats why i brought up earlier in the year the idea that maybe we need to get rid of MM

special teams is a massive glaring hole year after year, yet he's too loyal to his friend to fix the problem

I liken the situation in Green Bay to that of New England.

You've got a head coach and front office that consistently put a winner on the field. Year after year, due in large part to a great QB, the franchise is in the playoffs. Yet it's been some time since the team has made a SB appearance. The bloom is off the rose.

Yet there are fans and franchises all over the NFL who'd love to have your problem. Teams with revolving doors of coaches and players, teams who try to buy their way in through free agency, teams who move boldly up to draft specific players.

On the other hand, there appear to be teams that have or are passing you up. You wonder if your coach has passed his freshness date, if it's getting stale. But do you really want to blow it all up? Then again, you don't want to fade away, the perpetual good-enough-to-get-in-but-not-good-enough-to-win, like an eighth seed playoff team in the NBA. You don't know if it's the injuries or the arrests that have done you in, or if you just don't have the elite talent.

My belief is that MM and Ted are well aware of the staleness factor, and they have an expiration date in mind. Both have said they've got some plans as to when they'd like to retire, and I don't think it's that far off. I'm guessing two more years. I think that both believe that injuries wrecked this team's chances, not the special teams coaching or the defensive coaching.


In the future we'll all look back on this stretch as some of the halcyon days, but it'd sure be nice to have more than one SB win. We also look back fondly on the Ron Wolf days, but we don't want to be singing his song:

All we are is a fart in the wind...
Farts in the wind....
Green Bay's just a fart in the wind....
Oooooooh.........ooooooooh.........

[pittstang5]

MM's end of the season presser sealed it for me - Capers isn't going anywhere. Coaches lie or rather bend the truth when they speak, but the way MM gushed over Capers led me to believe that Capers is safe. I've accepted that. Besides, the DC I want already landed in Tenn., so right now I'm ok with Capers just for continuity's sake. Even with that said, if MM decides to dump Capers this late in the game - I'm all for that too. But I don't think that is going to happen, not now anyway.

As for Slocum, I still don't get how the hell this man has a job. MM says he evaluates everything - maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. How can you not look at all the Sp team screw ups and not push blame onto Slocum.

Since Capers doen't seem to be going anywhere, the next thing I'm looking for is for TT to start bringing in some Veteran leadership. I'd like to be optimistic, but I just don't think TT is going to bring anyone in worth a damn at any position. I hope I'm surprised.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

We hoped it would happen, we need it to happen, but it ain't gonna happen...

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm not a big fan of Capers at all, but he has had his good years and bad years. If you want to blame someone for the defense being a mess the last few years blame TT. I'm starting to lose faith in his drafting ability. I hope he proves me wrong.

[pbmax]

Packers are consistently younger and in too many season, consistently more injured than other teams. Both youth and revolving doors on ST I think have seriously hurt them.

No outside consultant? So remind me how did Crosby end up overcoming his slump?

His wife? I have no idea how he fixed it. But given it took time away from the team, my suspicion is that he fixed it without Slocum. He had recovered a bit at the end of the season, but McCarthy had dialed back what he was asking him to do. So whether the problem was alleviated by avoidance or repair is impossible to determine.

Youth and injuries are a part of every special team's situation, even if the Packers are near the top of the list. He needs to adjust what he is trying to accomplish. For example, going from Masthay to Crosby mid-season to get directional kicking when Masthay suddenly wasn't hitting everything out of the back of the end zone was a nice recovery. It should have not been necessary.

If you are always young, always injured, why are you teaching your KO coverage team 2 completely different ways to cover a kick? That is the kind of experiment that is probably best not performed on your perpetually young and injured Packer ST.

After his first year another ST coach called his approach novel and occasionally unsound. Does this strike you as the best approach to guide injured youngsters through learning to play special teams at the NFL level? If he or McCarthy want gimmick plays ahead ahead of boring soundness of plan, then they need to tell Ted they don't want to be as young on ST.

[mraynrand]

His wife? I have no idea how he fixed it. But given it took time away from the team, my suspicion is that he fixed it without Slocum. He had recovered a bit at the end of the season, but McCarthy had dialed back what he was asking him to do. So whether the problem was alleviated by avoidance or repair is impossible to determine.

Youth and injuries are a part of every special team's situation, even if the Packers are near the top of the list. He needs to adjust what he is trying to accomplish. For example, going from Masthay to Crosby mid-season to get directional kicking when Masthay suddenly wasn't hitting everything out of the back of the end zone was a nice recovery. It should have not been necessary.

If you are always young, always injured, why are you teaching your KO coverage team 2 completely different ways to cover a kick? That is the kind of experiment that is probably best not performed on your perpetually young and injured Packer ST.

After his first year another ST coach called his approach novel and occasionally unsound. Does this strike you as the best approach to guide injured youngsters through learning to play special teams at the NFL level? If he or McCarthy want gimmick plays ahead ahead of boring soundness of plan, then they need to tell Ted they don't want to be as young on ST.

Maybe hire Cosby's wife at ST consultant?
Two completely different ways to cover a kick? How radically different are they? Is it really that complicated? Do you have a source for this one, cuz I missed it completely
Who was this 'another ST coach?' Was he any good?
Who is available that is better than Slocum? OK, OK, hire the neighbor's cat - that would be an improvement I guess.

[Pugger]

If you read NE forums you don't see fans there calling for the heads of coaches when they lose in the playoffs. Their D isn't all that hot but they don't talk about running their DC out of town on a rail.

[pbmax]

Maybe hire Cosby's wife at ST consultant?
Two completely different ways to cover a kick? How radically different are they? Is it really that complicated? Do you have a source for this one, cuz I missed it completely
Who was this 'another ST coach?' Was he any good?
Who is available that is better than Slocum? OK, OK, hire the neighbor's cat - that would be an improvement I guess.

Completely might be stretching it. But directional kicking and coverage is different than a straight down the middle kickoff because of space limitations on the boundary side, the extra area that contain must hold on the wide side the of the field and the timing. Crosby's directional kicks are higher and shorter than Masthay's bombs. The likelihood of a return goes up because the kick is shorter though its hang time is greater. Space between blockers, return guy and coverage shortens with a shorter, higher kick.

Lane assignments can change because players who use speed to get around blocks in a typical deep kick will, on one side of the field, suddenly have less room and need to hand fight to maintain leverage.

If the players (some young, some new due to injury) haven't seen much of it before, there will be trouble. The Packers had continued problems defending the boundary return, losing containment which is a problem that the kick is meant to eliminate because its encouraging everyone to coverage on that point.

Mike Stock was the other guy, famously growing tired of Ryans long line drives and lack of control and settling for Frost and Kapinos.

[mraynrand]

His wife? I have no idea how he fixed it. But given it took time away from the team, my suspicion is that he fixed it without Slocum.

Here's the thing that bothers me. Everyone gets on Slocum for ST failures, and that's fine, since he's in charge. But when something gets corrected, it must be someone or something else. A leader should get the credit and the blame, or he gets neither. If neither, then he is Barry Switzer.