So,...what should the Packers do about Mike Neal????

[woodbuck27]

While every now and then you find a player who will cut off their nose to spite their face, it happens infrequently. Shields has shown no sign of that.

Hi Patler:

This is a ? simply for you not me or this board and based in your personal integrity; unless you desire to post a personal and general position and "YOUR INTEGRITY".

Have you ever lost confidence in an employer?

How about in terms of any once formerly decent relationship?

Do you sacrifice your integrity in terms of what's right or wrong for you?

Sam Shields has been performing in a contract year.

He must do his very best no matter what his personal agenda is.

[Rastak]

While every now and then you find a player who will cut off their nose to spite their face, it happens infrequently. Shields has shown no sign of that.

Happens alot more than I would have expected. TI would assume this is just a big hypothetical....

[Smeefers]

I'm not to worried about our D line. As far as I'm concerned, any JAG could go in there and hold a couple blockers. No one is asking them to cut through to the QB, all they're asking is for them to hold their ground. If Dom Truly just wants them to be Oline eaters, there's no need to pay them any kind of money. There's plenty of tubbies out there looking for work. You don't break the bank on a position that you don't use. That would be like us paying top dollar for a RG or full back.

Every where I look, I'm told that in the 3-4, Linebacker is where it's at. Inside and out. If that's the case, We have one excellent player, one slightly above average player and two jokes. We need to shore up our LB core with solid talent. That's where the extra money should be spent. The rest of the D woes will take care of themselves if we have a solid rank of LBers.

[Patler]

Hi Patler:

This is a ? simply for you not me or this board and based in your personal integrity; unless you desire to post a personal and general position and "YOUR INTEGRITY".

Have you ever lost confidence in an employer?

How about in terms of any once formerly decent relationship?

Do you sacrifice your integrity in terms of what's right or wrong for you?

Sam Shields has been performing in a contract year.

He must do his very best no matter what his personal agenda is.

The Packers as an organization and Russ Ball as an individual are consistently rated at the very top for integrity and fairness in negotiations. I suspect any offers made to Shields have been fair and reasonable, even if low. Shields has not come across as the sort who can't take the pressure of a high level business negotiation. I think he understands (or his agent has skillfully convinced him) that there is no point in worrying about the preliminaries, only the end result matters. I think he is pushing his negotiation advantage of being a player the team can ill-afford to lose.

Some players have egos that have to be stroked with contracts made to look like best ever at their position, even if the details don't show that. I don't see anything from Shields that indicates he is one of them. I have seen only very matter of fact comments from him, and very few of those.

I see this situation different from the last three the Packers lost, Jenkins, Wells and Jennings. Jenkins and Wells never seemed happy in GB. Each seemed to feel slighted easily, whether it was playing time, challenges in camp, whatever, even though they faced nothing different than pro athletes face routinely. They were "business soft" for what is a very cold and harsh business. I felt Jennings would leave for several years, and said so here, because in spite of giving lip service to the team mentality, it seemed that he really didn't like sharing the spotlight, and catches, with a deep receiving corp in GB. I'm not at all suggesting they are bad people, or even wrong. It just seemed obvious that each needed to try something different. Longwell was the same with a desire to kick in better conditions. He complained annually about pro bowl slights for bad weather kickers.

I just don't see any of those red flags with Shields. He will leave GB if someone offers a blockbuster deal the Packers can't match, but I see no indication that he has closed the option of returning to GB.

[pbmax]

I'm not to worried about our D line. As far as I'm concerned, any JAG could go in there and hold a couple blockers. No one is asking them to cut through to the QB, all they're asking is for them to hold their ground. If Dom Truly just wants them to be Oline eaters, there's no need to pay them any kind of money. There's plenty of tubbies out there looking for work. You don't break the bank on a position that you don't use. That would be like us paying top dollar for a RG or full back.

Every where I look, I'm told that in the 3-4, Linebacker is where it's at. Inside and out. If that's the case, We have one excellent player, one slightly above average player and two jokes. We need to shore up our LB core with solid talent. That's where the extra money should be spent. The rest of the D woes will take care of themselves if we have a solid rank of LBers.

I would like a new big one, to pair up with Boyd as depth and to guard against Raji's departure. But as you point out, it doesn't need to be in the draft. After some misgivings mainly about Raji, I think their needs are safety and LBs first.

But I am still concerned about pass rush. Most other 3-4 teams get push from somewhere other than their OLBs. The Packers weren't getting consistent anything inside except for Daniels and he was free lancing a bit.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If the packers want push from the dline they need to put Perry on the ground. He needs to put on some weight and go back to DE. Then somehow re-sign Raji and leave him at NT.....Do those two things and I think we have a much improved line and defense as a whole.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

The Packers as an organization and Russ Ball as an individual are consistently rated at the very top for integrity and fairness in negotiations. I suspect any offers made to Shields have been fair and reasonable, even if low. Shields has not come across as the sort who can't take the pressure of a high level business negotiation. I think he understands (or his agent has skillfully convinced him) that there is no point in worrying about the preliminaries, only the end result matters. I think he is pushing his negotiation advantage of being a player the team can ill-afford to lose.

Some players have egos that have to be stroked with contracts made to look like best ever at their position, even if the details don't show that. I don't see anything from Shields that indicates he is one of them. I have seen only very matter of fact comments from him, and very few of those.

I see this situation different from the last three the Packers lost, Jenkins, Wells and Jennings. Jenkins and Wells never seemed happy in GB. Each seemed to feel slighted easily, whether it was playing time, challenges in camp, whatever, even though they faced nothing different than pro athletes face routinely. They were "business soft" for what is a very cold and harsh business. I felt Jennings would leave for several years, and said so here, because in spite of giving lip service to the team mentality, it seemed that he really didn't like sharing the spotlight, and catches, with a deep receiving corp in GB. I'm not at all suggesting they are bad people, or even wrong. It just seemed obvious that each needed to try something different. Longwell was the same with a desire to kick in better conditions. He complained annually about pro bowl slights for bad weather kickers.

I just don't see any of those red flags with Shields. He will leave GB if someone offers a blockbuster deal the Packers can't match, but I see no indication that he has closed the option of returning to GB.

With Wells I think it was mostly about the money. I know Wells had times when he was upset because Spitz was starting ahead of him, but the last few years before he hit free agency he was the clear cut starter and even made the probowl once. The Rams offer made him one of the top paid centers in the league, something we never offered.

Jennings case really surprised me. We offered him a contract extension at or above his market value to stay with the team that drafted him a year before free agency. He had just won a superbowl two years before and was playing with an MVP QB in his prime. What else are you supposed to do to keep a player. Jennings turned out to be selfish and frankly a little fake. He always had this good guy persona when he was with our team but he was anything but that when he left. He threw his QB under a bus on the way out, complained about the spotlight and catches even though he had more than any other WR, and then accepted a similar offer from a rival team......WTF.

Jenkins was the only one I feel really bad about because of the year he was a free agent. Going into the 2011 season we were stacked and I think TT underrated his value to the team. Would we have hands down won the superbowl if we re-signed him? Nothing is ever certain, but we wouldn't have had a big hole on the dline if he did. What makes this worse is he gave Hawk like 30 something mil that same offseason. Jenkins also repeatedly told reporters during the season that his agent has not been approached by the team for an extension. I'm sure that contributed to his departure when the season was over.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Agree with you......but I don't think there is any way we lose Sheilds. He's getting resigned. Raji...torn on...he isn't set up to excel the way he's being used and is probably not worth the money he's going to get in FA to GB. I can roll either way with Neal.

TT's failed us in drafting defense; I hope we go get a couple average starting defensive players and do much of what you noted above in terms of keeping Shields and re tooling the offense a bit

Well don't be so sure about Shields. They have been trying to re-sign Shields during the season and still no deal. It seems to me they are still far apart on the money. We are talking about TT here, do you really think he will budge? If he thinks Shields is worth 5-6 mil a year, and his agent thinks 7-8 mil a year that could be his ticket out. See fellow free agent BJ Raji.

Neal they should let walk IF he wants a big deal. He hasn't earned it. He has been in the league for four years but we have only been able to see him play two of those years (and only one at his new position). The other two were on the sidelines. We paid this guy money for two years to do nothing because he was always hurt. Had he stayed healthy we would have a better idea of his potential and were he fits on the team. Its only fair that he accepts a 2-3 year deal at about 2 mil a year to a) prove he can stay healthy, b) show improvement at OLB, and c) stay healthy (oh wait I said that). I like his potential but not enough to pay him big money.

[Striker]

Well don't be so sure about Shields. They have been trying to re-sign Shields during the season and still no deal. It seems to me they are still far apart on the money. We are talking about TT here, do you really think he will budge? If he thinks Shields is worth 5-6 mil a year, and his agent thinks 7-8 mil a year that could be his ticket out. See fellow free agent BJ Raji.

Neal they should let walk IF he wants a big deal. He hasn't earned it. He has been in the league for four years but we have only been able to see him play two of those years (and only one at his new position). The other two were on the sidelines. We paid this guy money for two years to do nothing because he was always hurt. Had he stayed healthy we would have a better idea of his potential and were he fits on the team. Its only fair that he accepts a 2-3 year deal at about 2 mil a year to a) prove he can stay healthy, b) show improvement at OLB, and c) stay healthy (oh wait I said that). I like his potential but not enough to pay him big money.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Packers were offering him the $4-$6 million dollar range, while the Packers are offering him somewhere in the $8 million range.

The question is if one of the teams with a lot of cap room will offer him that kind of money.

[Joemailman]

nm

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Packers were offering him the $4-$6 million dollar range, while the Packers are offering him somewhere in the $8 million range.

The question is if one of the teams with a lot of cap room will offer him that kind of money.

Exactly. The best chance at re-signing Shields to a 4-6 mil/year type contract was in September/October. My gut feeling was that the closer he gets to free agency the more likely he is to test the market and the more it would cost to keep him. Almost February, not looking good.

A solid cover corner in the prime of his career has a lot of value. Shields has been playing solid football since his rookie year so teams know who he is and what he can do. Also, his speed is not hurting his cause.

[pbmax]

With Wells I think it was mostly about the money. I know Wells had times when he was upset because Spitz was starting ahead of him, but the last few years before he hit free agency he was the clear cut starter and even made the probowl once. The Rams offer made him one of the top paid centers in the league, something we never offered.

Jennings case really surprised me. We offered him a contract extension at or above his market value to stay with the team that drafted him a year before free agency. He had just won a superbowl two years before and was playing with an MVP QB in his prime. What else are you supposed to do to keep a player. Jennings turned out to be selfish and frankly a little fake. He always had this good guy persona when he was with our team but he was anything but that when he left. He threw his QB under a bus on the way out, complained about the spotlight and catches even though he had more than any other WR, and then accepted a similar offer from a rival team......WTF.

Jenkins was the only one I feel really bad about because of the year he was a free agent. Going into the 2011 season we were stacked and I think TT underrated his value to the team. Would we have hands down won the superbowl if we re-signed him? Nothing is ever certain, but we wouldn't have had a big hole on the dline if he did. What makes this worse is he gave Hawk like 30 something mil that same offseason. Jenkins also repeatedly told reporters during the season that his agent has not been approached by the team for an extension. I'm sure that contributed to his departure when the season was over.

Money is always a part of it but Wells commented about the slight of being benched for Spitz well before negotiations began and then again in his contract year. He could have been expressing his true feelings, it might have been a chip he used to motivate himself or it could have been part negotiating ploy (or all three). But he was not a happy camper and made it clear publicly.

Rosenhaus (Shields) generally tells his guys to shut up and not hold out or do anything dramatic while he becomes the public punching bag. So we could be set for trouble down the road, but nothing interesting has been said publicly yet.

The Packers have tended to lose front line guys who they don't get signed prior to FA at a more than average rate. I think its a definite sign of the Packers set price and the agent/player estimate are significantly far apart. The ones they get back (JJones and BJones) tend to have soft markets and their numbers come down. I don't remember the Packers coming back to the player and saying "here is what you asked for" in their last season.

Rodgers, Matthews, Burnett, Sitton, Jennings I and Hawk never got to that point. Thompson said the price was set for Woodson when they were told "this is what it would cost to get him in Green Bay". Packers were in a bit of a contest with someone (the Bills?) for Pickett but that is very rare. They are either going to meet your market ask or go elsewhere.

Unless Shields and Raji find the market less than ideal, my assumption is that they are gone. There are enough questions about Neal that he could be had for a middling second contract like the Jones guys.

[Patler]

Money is always a part of it but Wells commented about the slight of being benched for Spitz well before negotiations began and then again in his contract year. He could have been expressing his true feelings, it might have been a chip he used to motivate himself or it could have been part negotiating ploy (or all three). But he was not a happy camper and made it clear publicly.

That was why Wells' leaving seemed almost a forgone conclusion. He often mentioned the slight of being pushed aside for Spitz, even in his last year. All things being equal, maybe he would have stayed, maybe not; but the offer he got made it an easy choice for him. I don't think he had anything tugging at him to stay in GB, and would probably have left for equal money. (Just my opinion).

Rosenhaus (Shields) generally tells his guys to shut up and not hold out or do anything dramatic while he becomes the public punching bag. So we could be set for trouble down the road, but nothing interesting has been said publicly yet.

Rosenhaus has been much quieter in recent years. The Packers have often said that they actually enjoy dealing with him, because for the most part he is upfront and factual. He knows what the market is for his players. A lot of the FA's the Packers sign come from Rosenhaus, who said he likes sending players there because they get a fair chance to make the roster.

I think Shields will be in GB for 2014, either long term with a new contract or tagged for the year. I don't think they will let him walk this year.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

That was why Wells' leaving seemed almost a forgone conclusion. He often mentioned the slight of being pushed aside for Spitz, even in his last year. All things being equal, maybe he would have stayed, maybe not; but the offer he got made it an easy choice for him. I don't think he had anything tugging at him to stay in GB, and would probably have left for equal money. (Just my opinion).


Rosenhaus has been much quieter in recent years. The Packers have often said that they actually enjoy dealing with him, because for the most part he is upfront and factual. He knows what the market is for his players. A lot of the FA's the Packers sign come from Rosenhaus, who said he likes sending players there because they get a fair chance to make the roster.

I think Shields will be in GB for 2014, either long term with a new contract or tagged for the year. I don't think they will let him walk this year.

New contract for Shields maybe, but under the franchise tag? Doubt it. Tag for a corner is 11-12 million. Shields is not worth that kind of money even if for only a year. Only player I see that might be tagged is Raji. If they can tag him as DT then his number will be around 9 mil (not far off what they reportedly offered him). I think it would be dumb to just let Raji walk...Tag him and keep him for another year or trade him if possible. Seriously doubt Shields gets tagged and I seriously doubt Shields is coming back if he's not signed by the start of free agency. Clock is ticking for him to remain a packer imo.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Money is always a part of it but Wells commented about the slight of being benched for Spitz well before negotiations began and then again in his contract year. He could have been expressing his true feelings, it might have been a chip he used to motivate himself or it could have been part negotiating ploy (or all three). But he was not a happy camper and made it clear publicly.

Rosenhaus (Shields) generally tells his guys to shut up and not hold out or do anything dramatic while he becomes the public punching bag. So we could be set for trouble down the road, but nothing interesting has been said publicly yet.

The Packers have tended to lose front line guys who they don't get signed prior to FA at a more than average rate. I think its a definite sign of the Packers set price and the agent/player estimate are significantly far apart. The ones they get back (JJones and BJones) tend to have soft markets and their numbers come down. I don't remember the Packers coming back to the player and saying "here is what you asked for" in their last season.

Rodgers, Matthews, Burnett, Sitton, Jennings I and Hawk never got to that point. Thompson said the price was set for Woodson when they were told "this is what it would cost to get him in Green Bay". Packers were in a bit of a contest with someone (the Bills?) for Pickett but that is very rare. They are either going to meet your market ask or go elsewhere.

Unless Shields and Raji find the market less than ideal, my assumption is that they are gone. There are enough questions about Neal that he could be had for a middling second contract like the Jones guys.

I agree. Once Shields and Raji hit the open market they will find a couple teams looking to sign them. Not many talented, athletic, 27 yo NT on the open market. And not many talented, athletic, super fast 26 yo cover corners on the open market. They will cash in either here or on another team. Neal I could see signing a Jones 3 mil per year type contract. If Raji plays hard ball slap him with the tag.