So,...what should the Packers do about Mike Neal????

[Smeefers]

That was why Wells' leaving seemed almost a forgone conclusion. He often mentioned the slight of being pushed aside for Spitz, even in his last year. All things being equal, maybe he would have stayed, maybe not; but the offer he got made it an easy choice for him. I don't think he had anything tugging at him to stay in GB, and would probably have left for equal money. (Just my opinion).




Rosenhaus has been much quieter in recent years. The Packers have often said that they actually enjoy dealing with him, because for the most part he is upfront and factual. He knows what the market is for his players. A lot of the FA's the Packers sign come from Rosenhaus, who said he likes sending players there because they get a fair chance to make the roster.

I think Shields will be in GB for 2014, either long term with a new contract or tagged for the year. I don't think they will let him walk this year.

Just to get in on the Wells conversation - He wouldn't of been benched if he had played better than Spitz. I remember thinking that Spitz was hand over fist better than Wells when he started over him, then he got hurt and never got back to his potential. Meanwhile, getting benched really lit a fire under Wells and he improved remarkably. It was a shame to loose him, but anyone who is willing to sit on his laurels isn't worth keeping. You have to fight for your job and I don't think Wells really wanted to do that and now that he's got the cash, he's a defacto center who hasn't been back to the pro bowl...

[Smeefers]

If the Packers went 4-3, I think they'd keep Raji.

But in other news, the more time I take away from the season and the more time I've had to ruminate on the defense, the more I'm convinced that the defensive failings aren't on Capers but on the crapshoot of a draft. Two years ago, TT drafted for defense to replenish the talent. It hasn't worked so far:

Nick Perry: injuries have clouded his impact, but it's possible he turns into something considering his ability to rush from the right. Verdict: Maybe
Jerel Worthy: zero impact
Casey Hayward: playmaker his first year, but lost the entirety of his second year. Can he put together a solid sophomore year in his third year in the league?
Mike Daniels: consistent rush and likely the focus on the d-line of offenses, but in my opinion not because he's dominant but because there's no one dominant on the line. He could even get better.
Jerron McMillian: swing and a miss, but one I had hope for after seeing him in his rookie year
Terrell Manning: swing and a miss

Six picks in the first five rounds and all defense. And Daniels and Hayward are the only ones who even remotely qualify as playmaker from this draft, and I still wouldn't classify either as a difference maker (I tend to want to see it for a couple years before anointing anyone).

Of course TT is accountable for the draft talent, but I'm not going to the end of saying that I think he has to produce more talent or else (yet). Everyone makes bad picks and has off years. Here's hoping he can get some better talent in this upcoming draft and that the talent he has drafted can stay healthy. Matthews, Hayward, and Perry all remaining healthy would have made an impact. And maybe even Worthy, although I don't know what he's going to offer this team...

PostScript: I still find it hard to believe that the entire 2010 draft class is still on the team, considering the turnover rate and how likely it is for picks to be busts. Yes, Newhouse, Wilson, and Starks are probably all gone this year, but all seven of the players have started a stretch of games for the Packers in their careers. Makes the 2011 and 2012 classes seem bereft of talent in comparison, but the 2011 and 2012 classes are probably closer to the norm across the NFL. Time for the odds to work in our favor this year: great draft class and no injuries.

I really have to disagree with you that Daniels and Hayward remotely qualify as playmakers. 6 sacks for Daniels and solid play puts him in Jenkins Territory. Someone you'd definitely miss if he left. He's going to get a lot more time playing and is the heir apparent to Pickett. Shields has been a fantastic corner and still has room to grow and improve. Otherwise you're pretty spot on.

[red]

Actually there are a ton of DL on the market this year. That is our best chance to get Raji back, but I still think they let him walk and push for Randy Starks. If not him, someone else who is just as effective as Raji, but more reasonable in his demands.

i don't know about randy starks

first, he's on the wrong side of 30. and as i've stated many times, TT seems to think the 30 barrier applies to all positions, not just RB
second, he's going to cost you some good coin. this last season his cap number was 8.5 million
third, is he gonna be a NT or a DE? imo he's way too small to be a NT. and as a DE he only brings an average of about 4-4.5 sacks per season to the table

is a DE that can get you 3-5 sacks a season worth 6-9 million a year. to me he's not worth it

and do we even need another DE? we got a bunch of those, what we don't have are NT. and like i said, starks at 305 just isn't gonna cut it at NT imo

[Patler]

I haven't given up on Worthy just yet. He did play quite a bit as a rookie and had a couple sacks at least. This year was a complete washout due to the knee injury at the end of 2012. Daniels made a big jump from year 1 to year 2. I hope something at least somewhat similar can happen with Worthy next year. We can hope, anyway.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

You must have been watching other teams. Shields was a legit shutdown guy this year. I still think if he doesn't go down, we beat SF.

Get real. Shields is not worth anything near 12 mil/year. Sam is good not great and certainly not "a legit shutdown guy." Shields doesn't take away half the field.....those are the guys you pay 12 mil/year for.

[mraynrand]

Get real. Shields is not worth anything near 12 mil/year. Sam is good not great and certainly not "a legit shutdown guy." Shields doesn't take away half the field.....those are the guys you pay 12 mil/year for.

Well, how many legit shutdown guys are in the league these days. Maybe one or two? Shields is extremely valuable to the Packers given the division they play in; he's probably the second or third most valuable guy on the defense. 12 million? Hard to think anyone will give him that much, but there are crazy stupid GMs out there. He's worth 9 mil, 20-30 guaranteed.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Well, how many legit shutdown guys are in the league these days. Maybe one or two? Shields is extremely valuable to the Packers given the division they play in; he's probably the second or third most valuable guy on the defense. 12 million? Hard to think anyone will give him that much, but there are crazy stupid GMs out there. He's worth 9 mil, 20-30 guaranteed.

9 mil? Ummm no. Still to high. I wouldn't pay him over 7. Shields is a very good player, but he's not that good.

[mraynrand]

9 mil? Ummm no. Still to high. I wouldn't pay him over 7. Shields is a very good player, but he's not that good.

you may be closer to what the Packers are willing to pay than I am. I'm less than objective because I love that Shields comes up big a lot when they need him, especially against the Bears.

[bobblehead]

i don't know about randy starks

first, he's on the wrong side of 30. and as i've stated many times, TT seems to think the 30 barrier applies to all positions, not just RB
second, he's going to cost you some good coin. this last season his cap number was 8.5 million
third, is he gonna be a NT or a DE? imo he's way too small to be a NT. and as a DE he only brings an average of about 4-4.5 sacks per season to the table

is a DE that can get you 3-5 sacks a season worth 6-9 million a year. to me he's not worth it

and do we even need another DE? we got a bunch of those, what we don't have are NT. and like i said, starks at 305 just isn't gonna cut it at NT imo

He is an end, and he also is good at eating up blockers. I watched a handful of Miami games this year and I like what I saw. I think you land him for 5mill a year and he is a balanced player that helps a team.

[bobblehead]

Get real. Shields is not worth anything near 12 mil/year. Sam is good not great and certainly not "a legit shutdown guy." Shields doesn't take away half the field.....those are the guys you pay 12 mil/year for.

Alshon Jeffries and AJ Green had a ton of HUGE games this year. Shields was a rock on both of them. 12 mil/year...probably not, but 8-9 is likely in my book. IMO shields is a top 10 in the NFL corner right now, and if our D starts playing better everyone will become aware of it.

[bobblehead]

9 mil? Ummm no. Still to high. I wouldn't pay him over 7. Shields is a very good player, but he's not that good.

I have a pretty good track record on guessing guys worths. I had Grant pegged when everyone thought I was crazy. I guarantee that 28 teams would pay sam over 7 mil/year...Just like I guarantee that CJ Wilson starts for someone next year (should be us).

[red]

if we give sam 9 million a year, all of a sudden we have the highest paid CB tandem in the NFL

on one the worst secondaries in the nfl

does that make any sense?

[KYPack]

I haven't given up on Worthy just yet. He did play quite a bit as a rookie and had a couple sacks at least. This year was a complete washout due to the knee injury at the end of 2012. Daniels made a big jump from year 1 to year 2. I hope something at least somewhat similar can happen with Worthy next year. We can hope, anyway.

I wuz gonna give you a jolt on that one, Patler.

I watched some of those game synopsis shows on NFLN and paid close attention to Worthy. Man, he didn't do shit. but I just looked up his stat line. 2.5 sacks. I have absolutely no recall of that. He was listed as a starter in 4 games, once again, don't recall that shit at all.

The big negative was his activity. He had one move. he would attack with one arm and try to turn his body, make himself skinny and then slip into the play that way. That just don't work for an NFL 5 tech. But... he was a feakin' rook. He has to work hard, learn some tricks and get violent with his hands if he will ever hope to make it in the league. The 3rd year is supposed to be a big deal, maybe he will make the big leap. Trgo has got to get the kid going if we will ever have some production from him.

This research puts me in the "wait and see" column, too.

[bobblehead]

if we give sam 9 million a year, all of a sudden we have the highest paid CB tandem in the NFL

on one the worst secondaries in the nfl

does that make any sense?

Well, when you consider our safeties...yes.

[mraynrand]

Well, when you consider our safeties...yes.

and lack of pass rush