So,...what should the Packers do about Mike Neal????

[smuggler]

and lack of pass rush

x1000

[Patler]

I wuz gonna give you a jolt on that one, Patler.

I watched some of those game synopsis shows on NFLN and paid close attention to Worthy. Man, he didn't do shit. but I just looked up his stat line. 2.5 sacks. I have absolutely no recall of that. He was listed as a starter in 4 games, once again, don't recall that shit at all.

The big negative was his activity. He had one move. he would attack with one arm and try to turn his body, make himself skinny and then slip into the play that way. That just don't work for an NFL 5 tech. But... he was a feakin' rook. He has to work hard, learn some tricks and get violent with his hands if he will ever hope to make it in the league. The 3rd year is supposed to be a big deal, maybe he will make the big leap. Trgo has got to get the kid going if we will ever have some production from him.

This research puts me in the "wait and see" column, too.

He actually played a lot of snaps as a rookie, just didn't make much of an impression. He might never be anything, but he must have some potential because they sure gave him opportunities in 2012.

[run pMc]

Agree with KY on Worthy, although I've probably been less kind than others on Worthy. I didn't see much his rookie year that gave me hope he could be a keeper. Comparing rookie years, I think Datone Jones looked better, honestly. This year I figured the injury would have hindered any real production, but if nothing else getting him back on the field likely gave him confidence in his knee. Agree Trgovac needs to teach him to play in the pros -- this is a big year for Worthy. Assuming he's healthy, the light has to go on for him.

IIRC his sacks were hustle/coverage sacks, not something where he flat out beat an OL. I saw a lot of thrashing around but not a lot of pressure, and it seemed like he could be moved out of his gap and run on.

Save me a seat in the "wait and see" lounge.

[pbmax]

if we give sam 9 million a year, all of a sudden we have the highest paid CB tandem in the NFL

on one the worst secondaries in the nfl

does that make any sense?

For what its worth, Football Outsiders agrees with you, they aren't too high on either this year. However, they cannot tease out safety help from CB play and they cannot count pass rush (unless its a sack) effects on DB coverages.

The uncertainty makes me cautious about offering him 11 or 12 million, but he is worth Tramon's deal at around $9 mil per.

[pbmax]

He actually played a lot of snaps as a rookie, just didn't make much of an impression. He might never be anything, but he must have some potential because they sure gave him opportunities in 2012.

That is what worried me about him. He played a lot, even was a backup 5 tech in base by midseason in addition to his rotation in pass rush nickel.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

if we give sam 9 million a year, all of a sudden we have the highest paid CB tandem in the NFL

on one the worst secondaries in the nfl

does that make any sense?

No Kidding...way to many players paid well on defense to be as bad as they are. More money needs to go to the offense since they carry the team year in year out. Williams is over paid and has been for a few years, Burnett is over paid, Hawk WAS over paid and still might be, Brad Jones is over paid, Pickett was over paid the last couple years, Bush is over paid, heck even MD Jennings was over paid (shouldn't even be in the league). Everyone else is on a rookie deal still. Only player not over paid is Matthews and he barely stays on the field anymore. Not saying Shields is a bad player but lets not get carried anyway....the guy is good but not great. I don't mind paying guys to keep them, but just make sure you're paying for production is all I'm saying.

Cobb, Nelson, and James Jones are all under paid and they have been carrying our team since they arrived. If you want to pay Shields 9 mil/year fine, but then you have to start axing other high paid under performers on defense. I don't want Shields contract to come at the expense of keeping Cobb or Nelson next season for example.

[red]

For what its worth, Football Outsiders agrees with you, they aren't too high on either this year. However, they cannot tease out safety help from CB play and they cannot count pass rush (unless its a sack) effects on DB coverages.

The uncertainty makes me cautious about offering him 11 or 12 million, but he is worth Tramon's deal at around $9 mil per.

i was thinking about his a bit last night too

we run more of a zone correct? with some man to man sprinkled in. but its mostly zone right? thats why we have cb's letting guys run past them thinking there is a safety their to pick them up, and they rarely are. or a cb letting a wr run accross the middle of the field when there's no one there

i mean, we run mostly zone coverage, correct. or am i off on that?

if we are running zone, then whats the point of having two very highly paid/skilled cb's on the team, when the whole secondary is only as strong as its weakest link?

you could have deon and revis in their primes out there, if the safeties behind them are off in la la land, then its not gonna matter how good those cb's are

we saw so many blown assignments and miscommunications involving shields and tramon and the safeties this year that i don't know if either one is worth 9 million a year.

would we have been any better or any worse off with a couple of 3 million dollar CB's out there? probably not imo

[red]

Cobb, Nelson, and James Jones are all under paid and they have been carrying our team since they arrived. If you want to pay Shields 9 mil/year fine, but then you have to start axing other high paid under performers on defense. I don't want Shields contract to come at the expense of keeping Cobb or Nelson next season for example.

i said during the season, before tramon put together a couple nice games. that i thought the team could only afford 1 of tramon or shields. if they want to keep tramon, then shields should be allowed to leave. if they sign shields to a big deal, then they need to release tramon.

i said at the time, and i still say now, that the team should release tramon and give shields his money

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

i said during the season, before tramon put together a couple nice games. that i thought the team could only afford 1 of tramon or shields. if they want to keep tramon, then shields should be allowed to leave. if they sign shields to a big deal, then they need to release tramon.

i said at the time, and i still say now, that the team should release tramon and give shields his money

I completely agree. Shields, House, Hayward, and Hyde would still be very solid. While you're at it put Burnett on the same flight as Tramon.

[red]

I completely agree. Shields, House, Hayward, and Hyde would still be very solid. While you're at it put Burnett on the same flight as Tramon.

yeah, i'm starting to think that signing a vet free agent safety and drafting one in the 1st or second round might be the way to go

burnett was really bad this year. add in the fact that he was calling out all the coverage adjustments and getting the seconday lined up right (at least thats what i remember reading). him being in the wrong place all the time, and other people being in the wrong place all the time, makes me think that a lot of the problems we saw in the secondary came from one guy, burnett

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

yeah, i'm starting to think that signing a vet free agent safety and drafting one in the 1st or second round might be the way to go

burnett was really bad this year. add in the fact that he was calling out all the coverage adjustments and getting the seconday lined up right (at least thats what i remember reading). him being in the wrong place all the time, and other people being in the wrong place all the time, makes me think that a lot of the problems we saw in the secondary came from one guy, burnett

Easily the player least deserving of his contract this past season (not including injured players). MD Jennings sucked just as bad but at least he wasn't getting paid. Really bad deal were made with both Burnett and Brad Jones.

[3irty1]

We've got little choice but to take our lumps with Burnett. We NEED him to actually be good. He certainly has the tools.

I think I don't think Shields is worth Tramon 2010 money. but neither is Tramon. Ideally this is a Hawk/Jones situation where everyone gets a fair deal based on what is reasonable to expect going forward.

[Joemailman]

Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. Jennings on the other hand is not an NFL-caliber starting safety. He has to be replaced. I think they can afford to keep both Shields and Tramon. I would probably try to restructure Tramon's contract, giving him an extension and reducing the 2014 salary cap hit a bit. TT needs to find a way to get Shields signed. I think he will.

[Patler]

Brad Jones contract is barely significant in the overall scheme of things. $2.5M against the cap in 2013, $2M in dead money if they cut him before 2014, $3.9 if they keep him. Final year at $4.8, or $1M if they cut him. I suspect he will either be a good player worth the $4.8M, or he won't see 2015 with GB because it is so cheap to cut him. Heck, he might not see 2014.

Burnett is too expensive to cut for several years ($6.6 dead money in 2014). He cost $3.2M in 2013, will cost $4.8M this year and $5.2M in 2015 (or $5M in dead money).

[red]

Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. Jennings on the other hand is not an NFL-caliber starting safety. He has to be replaced. I think they can afford to keep both Shields and Tramon. I would probably try to restructure Tramon's contract, giving him an extension and reducing the 2014 salary cap hit a bit. TT needs to find a way to get Shields signed. I think he will.

joe, i like you. you're one of my favorite posters

but for the last couple of days, i haven't been able to agree with anything you've said. in fact every time you post, i want to reach into the screen and punch you

i can't help but think it has something to do with your avatar, looking at it makes my blood boil and makes me want to go on a killing spree

i think you should be forced to change it seeings how it is such an objectionable, disgusting picture