Classic McGinn--JS---"Packers should take Page out of Broncos Book"

[Bretsky]

And what about TT with Woodson and Pickett? Let's see what Sea does 5-6 years into Schneider's tenure to see if the approach changes when they actually have to pay their superstars.

I have forever given TT praise for Wooson and Pickett
I give Schneider a ton of credit for all of the moves he's made ..even since last year

When TT made his splash this team seemed like they really needed...desperately...an infusion of talent.

I looked at Seattle as being on the brink last year...needing some short term help if they decided to go for it. And Seattle Went all in.

I think Ron Wolf made several attempts to roll the dice and go all in as well; I view Scheider the same way. IMO TT really takes a more conservative route. Ha e's never do what Denver did. IT's not in his blood to bring in guys..typically...like Michael Bennett....Elvis Dumerville....John Abrahson...for instance. I think those are the guys Ron Wolf was constantly looking for. Never afraid to strike out...but he was alwasy swinging at differnt pitches

Your points regarding how it's hard to compare Wolf to anything because he was in a non cap era is very valid though

[mraynrand]

Everyone seems to ignore assessments of the rosters prior to the transactions....

nice post. I enjoyed reading it. I think it illustrates that even the best of GMs have to have an ingredient of luck. All these guys can manage to accumulate a collection of decent players, but to win it all, they have to gel together at some point, and even with good coaching, you can't control for injuries and other circumstances, even when you pull the trigger on a deal that helps you get over the hump.

[denverYooper]

nice post. I enjoyed reading it.

+1. It reminds me of a favorite quote from 1984 when I read something that cuts through:

The book fascinated him, or more exactly it reassured him. In a sense it told him nothing that was new, but that was part of the attraction. It said what he would have said, if it had been possible for him to set his scattered thoughts in order. It was the product of a mind similar to his own, but enormously more powerful, more systematic, less fear-ridden. The best books, he perceived, are those that tell you what you know already.

[pbmax]

Look back at '96 and '97. Wolf acquired plenty of veterans of NFL wars to lead his young uns. McGinn is correct.

A seasoned veteran would NOT have fucked this up:

Right. Veterans like Donald Driver, Greg Jennings or Jermichael Finley never have drops.

Also, older football players have better vertical leap than younger ones too.

I think they should consider a vet for safety and possibly ILB but this is not the reason why. Playmakers are not who you are hunting in bargain value FA.

[pbmax]

BTW, Micah Hyde last season: ZERO, 0, NADA, NULL, SEFR, RIE picks.

Kaepernick threw him a gift and the idiot rookie still dropped it.

Grrrr. Thinking about it makes me angry.

Also, should not have played this guy as he was a rookie and will not make any plays.

[pbmax]

Bretsky, I know you like Schneider, and he's probably very competent at his job, but the guy's basically Carroll's "Yes Man." In other words, even though he holds the GM title, Schneider is pretty much Ted Thompson when Ted Thompson was in Seattle.

To say that Schneider built the current Seagulls is like saying Grant won the War for Southern Independence (aka, American Civil War). Or Scott Pioli built the Patriot Dynasty.

Given that he comes from the Wolf-Thompson School of Midgetry (stubborn and complete intolerance of short people), and that he favored the signing of Flynn, Schneider likely didn't want to draft Rusty Wilson. Future NFL head coach and Mike Sherman disciple, Darell Bevell, convinced Caroll to give the little guy (Wilson) a chance.

The guy in KC is also a YES MAN. Want an example of an ex-Packer, Polar Bear influenced, front office "brass" that runs his own show? McKenzie.

Carroll gives Schneider credit for drafting Russell Wilson. He is more than a yes man.

[Bretsky]

Right. Veterans like Donald Driver, Greg Jennings or Jermichael Finley never have drops.

Also, older football players have better vertical leap than younger ones too.

I think they should consider a vet for safety and possibly ILB but this is not the reason why. Playmakers are not who you are hunting in bargain value FA.

If there is one thing I think nearly all of us agree on it can be summarized as follows:

DEAR TED

Get off your ass in Free Agency and go sign a legitimate f'ckin starting safety because you have failed to address that spot

[Bretsky]

Carroll gives Schneider credit for drafting Russell Wilson. He is more than a yes man.

Yes, he is...way more. It's not like Pete Carroll is hoodie genius...loaded with credentials that allow him to control things/personnell. Schneider has loaded this team on defense and through the draft. And their secondary and special teams...that's talent Schneider chose.

[Bretsky]

Right. Veterans like Donald Driver, Greg Jennings or Jermichael Finley never have drops.

Also, older football players have better vertical leap than younger ones too.

I think they should consider a vet for safety and possibly ILB but this is not the reason why. Playmakers are not who you are hunting in bargain value FA.

I think it's legit criticicm to show TT has failed at safely.....I would not say Hyde f'cked this up (even though he did in missing the pass). He might be the gem of last year's draft and showed a lot or raw skills...that if developed....will show up for us for many years to come. He's the closest thing we have to a 2 safety...I think....even though he's a bit miscast there as well.

[Bretsky]

If you guys haven't noticed....I like posting shit/threads that spark debate..and arguments....I generally don't get into the obvious threads

I don't think the Denver plan is the one GB has to follow. If you bring in that many vet free agents one of them might end up taking the roster spot of a rookie Sam Shields.

But I do embrace using free agency some to shore up some Captian Obvious Weaknesses. As Red has pointed out we sometimes end up signing our own for too much money. Generally overpaying a bit isn't bad.......unless you choose the wrong player to overpay and he was a bust. Pickett was an incredible signing; Woodson turned out to be.

We tried like heck to sign the LB stud Arrington and he chose another team. Had he been a bust for it...aka....Joe Johnson...there is your argument against Free Agency.

[3irty1]

If you guys haven't noticed....I like posting shit/threads that spark debate..and arguments....I generally don't get into the obvious threads

I don't think the Denver plan is the one GB has to follow. If you bring in that many vet free agents one of them might end up taking the roster spot of a rookie Sam Shields.

But I do embrace using free agency some to shore up some Captian Obvious Weaknesses. As Red has pointed out we sometimes end up signing our own for too much money. Generally overpaying a bit isn't bad.......unless you choose the wrong player to overpay and he was a bust. Pickett was an incredible signing; Woodson turned out to be.

We tried like heck to sign the LB stud Arrington and he chose another team. Had he been a bust for it...aka....Joe Johnson...there is your argument against Free Agency.

I pretty much never agree with you but I do appreciate you playing devils advocate and I do realize that's the role you choose here. This forum is absolute shit unless someone is there to challenge the status quo.

[Bretsky]

I pretty much never agree with you but I do appreciate you playing devils advocate and I do realize that's the role you choose here. This forum is absolute shit unless someone is there to challenge the status quo.

We agree more than what you think.........although.........I"ll never admit it

[pbmax]

I think it's legit criticicm to show TT has failed at safely.....I would not say Hyde f'cked this up (even though he did in missing the pass). He might be the gem of last year's draft and showed a lot or raw skills...that if developed....will show up for us for many years to come. He's the closest thing we have to a 2 safety...I think....even though he's a bit miscast there as well.

Safety is a catastrophe, especially since Burnett signed a deal and promptly regressed to Marquand Manuel level.

And it is example number one of why Ted, of all people, should not be trading up. If he doesn't land a starter in FA, I hope he draft three safeties, none with consecutive picks though.

[Bretsky]

Safety is a catastrophe, especially since Burnett signed a deal and promptly regressed to Marquand Manuel level.

And it is example number one of why Ted, of all people, should not be trading up. If he doesn't land a starter in FA, I hope he draft three safeties, none with consecutive picks though.

I'm not that bearish on Burnett; I think he has a lot of talent. But dude needs a VET to direct him back there. Listed to a great interview with Leroy Butler.
He discussed the great impact Robinson had on him as a young player. Then he noted Burnett needs that. I really agree.
Look back at the Chicago Game. He made an incredible play to break up a touchdown
Then later that game he forgot his assignment and his mental lapse resulted in a Bears TD. We need a good vet player back there to just allow him to play w/o thinking IMO

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm not that bearish on Burnett; I think he has a lot of talent. But dude needs a VET to direct him back there. Listed to a great interview with Leroy Butler.
He discussed the great impact Robinson had on him as a young player. Then he noted Burnett needs that. I really agree.
Look back at the Chicago Game. He made an incredible play to break up a touchdown
Then later that game he forgot his assignment and his mental lapse resulted in a Bears TD. We need a good vet player back there to just allow him to play w/o thinking IMO

Sorry man but Burnett blows. Total disappointment....even more than Brad Jones and that's saying something. We need two new guys back there.