MM's management style

[Patler]

well thats just it, on other blogs and forums for other teams, the posters and writers are allowed to talk bad about the team and management. this site is cool aid central where the team can never do any wrong

look at other packer sites, they're having open discussions about things we aren't allowed to talk about or bring up. they have real discussions about thats that if brought up here, would result in the poster being a "crazy lunatic that obviously has no clue what they are talking about".

site is like the germans under hitler. "no, he's a good man, he's just trying to protect us from everybody else that wants to hurt us. that smoke and smell is nothing, its just the fuhrers way of showing his love to all the children"
mad should name this place delusionville

i have a feeling that is the guy who sweeps up after games in section 121 came up to you and said, "you know, the packer organization feel that it would be best forthe organization if you lowered your head and ran as fast as you can into that wall", three quarters of the people on here would say "OH yes sir, whatever you say mr packer employee person, if the team feels that would be the best thing to do. the teams never wrong about anything"

Red; with all due respect, what your are talking about on many other sites is not open discussion, its a lynch mob mentality.

I am often critical of things Packer related, yet I suspect many of you will label me as one of the leading TT and MM apologists simply because I rarely throw my hands in the air screaming "fire the lot of 'em!" I don't think you can read any of my posts in this thread without acknowledging that each is critical of MM. But, I have also directly stated that I am not advocating his firing, just change in his approach.

As for TT, I said from the beginning that I really liked his approach to remaking the roster, but a critical juncture would be when the team is on the doorstep of championships and whether he can switch from a roster building mentality to to one of filling critical missing parts for championship runs. I have recently stated (without advocating his firing) that so far he has not shown that he has that ability. On the other hand, I will not jump on the "he blew the Shields deal" bandwagon either, because we know absolutely nothing about what the negotiations have entailed.

Very good companies pick good people and help them to get even better. Very good companies make a lot of mistakes, but learn from them and become better. I don't look at the Packers any differently. TT and MM are good but not perfect. Hopefully they continue to grow and get better.

What are the chances of getting better by firing either or both? There are an awful lot of bad coaches out there. Look at the 2006 HC class which besides MM included Jauron, Marinelli, Kubiak, Edwards, Childress, Payton, Mangini, Shell and Linehan. Look at all the ones hired since. How many would you REALLY prefer over MM? A few, maybe; but, there are a lot of factors besides just winning games. Harbaugh seems to have worn out his welcome in SF in spite of being successful on the field. GB is lucky to have a team that seems to work well together. When you have that, you have success, and any year can become 2010 all over again.

Change for the sake of change when it comes to head coaches is generally a poor approach. I lived through Bengtson to Devine, to Starr, to Gregg to Infante. You get excited for the change, and initially see differences, but in the end the final product is just as bad but in different ways than the last time.

No coach or GM is perfect. When you get ones that re better than most, it is best to hang on to them and look for improvement from within rather than ripping it all down and rebuilding.

[red]

Actually Red, the only person acting that way is you. I didn't find any instances in this thread, which has almost 100 responses, of anyone calling you a crazy lunatic. You, on the other hand, had this to say:



So who is it that can't handle an open discussion of differing views?

thats just it, there is no discusion, or allowance of differing views on here

if you don't buy into 100% what the packers are doing, then you're a lunatic asshole on here

[Patler]

thats just it, there is no discusion, or allowance of differing views on here

if you don't buy into 100% what the packers are doing, then you're a lunatic asshole on here

...and unless you scream for heads to roll (especially MM's) you are a cool-aide drinking fool with his head stuck up management's ass.

Opposite side of the same coin.

[red]

Are you fucking kidding? If there were any more chicken littles on this site, the sky might actually fall down. If watching football makes you this upset you should stop watching. If you are trying to point out fault to make yourself look smart, it's not working. If this is all an internet persona, carry on.

To call this a Kool-aid site is just more complaining that gets many others to agree with you. If anything it's quite the opposite. And the only people who get an involuntary break from this place are trolls who get warned like 6000 times.

who's upset

and here we go, if you don't like what the packers are doing, stop watching football. if you don't agree with TT stop watching the packers

and i stand by what i said about most people on here wouldn't question the packers no matter what. if mark murphy walked up and shot your mother in the face right in front of you, most on here would say "oh thank you sir, should have done that long ago, go pack go"

look at the sam shields thread, it didn't take long after TT basically let SS walk before people are now saying "good, he wasn't that good anyways, heres a list of reasons why he isn't any good....." when 2 months ago, it was all "aw man, sam is the best CB we have, he's be one of the top FA 's on the market if he ever gets there, he's awesome".

[red]

...and unless you scream for heads to roll (especially MM's) you are a cool-aide drinking fool with his head stuck up management's ass.

Opposite side of the same coin.

and its me, woody, and wist on the one side, and the other hundred or so on the other side. maybe one or two in the middle

and no, people don't have to scream for stubbies head, just not agree with every fucking thing he does, or see him as a coach with actual faults

[Zool]

who's upset

and here we go, if you don't like what the packers are doing, stop watching football. if you don't agree with TT stop watching the packers

and i stand by what i said about most people on here wouldn't question the packers no matter what. if mark murphy walked up and shot your mother in the face right in front of you, most on here would say "oh thank you sir, should have done that long ago, go pack go"

look at the sam shields thread, it didn't take long after TT basically let SS walk before people are now saying "good, he wasn't that good anyways, heres a list of reasons why he isn't any good....." when 2 months ago, it was all "aw man, sam is the best CB we have, he's be one of the top FA 's on the market if he ever gets there, he's awesome".

Perspective is a hellova thing. People disagree with you and all the sudden you're a victim. Interesting.

[mraynrand]

who's upset

and here we go, if you don't like what the packers are doing, stop watching football. if you don't agree with TT stop watching the packers

and i stand by what i said about most people on here wouldn't question the packers no matter what. if mark murphy walked up and shot your mother in the face right in front of you, most on here would say "oh thank you sir, should have done that long ago, go pack go"

look at the sam shields thread, it didn't take long after TT basically let SS walk before people are now saying "good, he wasn't that good anyways, heres a list of reasons why he isn't any good....." when 2 months ago, it was all "aw man, sam is the best CB we have, he's be one of the top FA 's on the market if he ever gets there, he's awesome".

straw men are the easiest of enemies to defeat.

[wist43]

thats just it, there is no discusion, or allowance of differing views on here

if you don't buy into 100% what the packers are doing, then you're a lunatic asshole on here

...and unless you scream for heads to roll (especially MM's) you are a cool-aide drinking fool with his head stuck up management's ass.

Opposite side of the same coin.

"I'm a bad man... I live on both sides of the fence, my grass is always green"

The Rabbi from Lucky Number Slevin

Awesome movie

[ThunderDan]

and its me, woody, and wist on the one side, and the other hundred or so on the other side. maybe one or two in the middle

and no, people don't have to scream for stubbies head, just not agree with every fucking thing he does, or see him as a coach with actual faults

This whole discussion is funny.

I completely and totally respect Wist because he disagrees and makes his points. I may not agree but he points out what he sees and why.

You on the other hand scream and scream and bitch and moan. I first thought it was just an internet persona but now I am realizing it isn't just that. I remember you bitching about a game where there was nothing to bitch about. It was funny then.

Woody is woody.

[Patler]

look at the sam shields thread, it didn't take long after TT basically let SS walk before people are now saying "good, he wasn't that good anyways, heres a list of reasons why he isn't any good....." when 2 months ago, it was all "aw man, sam is the best CB we have, he's be one of the top FA 's on the market if he ever gets there, he's awesome".

OK, I did go back and look at the Sam Shields thread. Most of the critical comments about Shields as a player are actually very factual ones, stating where he appears on various published lists, with commentary about why the lists have the four, five or six others rated above him and what that might mean for contract offers. Almost everyone implies they would like him back, but not at the level of an elite CB contract. Most express hope that something still can be worked out.

I saw no "Good bye and good riddance" post from anyone. However, I did see several of the opposite, "epic fail" and the like that suggest the simple fact Shields is a free agent is proof in and of itself that the Packers handled it very poorly.

[KYPack]

On any of these team forums, it usually breaks about 80-20. Most of the fans are pro team and a segment of the posters are anti everything. On here the contrarian group might be a tad smaller, but there is a pretty consistent pulse of people that don't think the team has the right GM or wants sweeping change in the coaching staff. & that's cool. I've been on forums where everybody is pro (or anti) team and those venues are boring as shit.

I don't think you are being criticized or called nuts. The only poster that has stated you were off the beam bc of a point you made recently was me. I thought your point about GB being put in a trick bag during the Shields FA process because Shields could get a funny money offer and then force the Pack to match it in hard dollars was wrong and slightly nuts. I still do, I don't think even Drew Rosenhaus would agree with you on that one. Your point was wrong and not factual, that ain't the way it works. That said, I wanted the Packers to retain Sammy. NFL defense now means you defend the pass. Pass D is coverage and pressure. Minus SS, we aren't as good a coverage group as last season.

TT feels Sam has priced himself outside the Packers salary scheme. I'd hope we can work things around to keep Sam. That doesn't appear like it's gonna happen. I don't like that, but I do recognize that Thompson knows his job infinitely better than many of the naysayers I see on net football forums. The Pack has reached the point many observers have been predicting for 2-3 years. All of these young guys have proven themselves and have mature contracts. We are going to lose some good football talent and it's gonna hurt. Next year will even be worse. We are gonna have 4-5 ripe contracts and we will only keep one or two of those guys. When that happens, people are going to say Thompson is lazy, stubborn, or stupid. Those people will be wrong. Hate the game, not the player.

Speaking of other forums, check out this quote I saw on a Bronco forum...

Quote on

Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson were regarded as being among the best GMs in the NFL before they won rings; they were regarded as such because they ran perennially competitive teams who contended for, even if hadn't yet won, the ultimate prize and operated "destination" franchises.

Quote off

I agree with this. Thompson and Newsome have allowed their franchise to defy gravity, stay at or near competitive levels, going to SB's and having top talent over the course of time.

People who attack either guy just ain't paying attention.

[Fritz]

On any of these team forums, it usually breaks about 80-20. Most of the fans are pro team and a segment of the posters are anti everything. On here the contrarian group might be a tad smaller, but there is a pretty consistent pulse of people that don't think the team has the right GM or wants sweeping change in the coaching staff. & that's cool. I've been on forums where everybody is pro (or anti) team and those venues are boring as shit.

I don't think you are being criticized or called nuts. The only poster that has stated you were off the beam bc of a point you made recently was me. I thought your point about GB being put in a trick bag during the Shields FA process because Shields could get a funny money offer and then force the Pack to match it in hard dollars was wrong and slightly nuts. I still do, I don't think even Drew Rosenhaus would agree with you on that one. Your point was wrong and not factual, that ain't the way it works. That said, I wanted the Packers to retain Sammy. NFL defense now means you defend the pass. Pass D is coverage and pressure. Minus SS, we aren't as good a coverage group as last season.

TT feels Sam has priced himself outside the Packers salary scheme. I'd hope we can work things around to keep Sam. That doesn't appear like it's gonna happen. I don't like that, but I do recognize that Thompson knows his job infinitely better than many of the naysayers I see on net football forums. The Pack has reached the point many observers have been predicting for 2-3 years. All of these young guys have proven themselves and have mature contracts. We are going to lose some good football talent and it's gonna hurt. Next year will even be worse. We are gonna have 4-5 ripe contracts and we will only keep one or two of those guys. When that happens, people are going to say Thompson is lazy, stubborn, or stupid. Those people will be wrong. Hate the game, not the player.

Speaking of other forums, check out this quote I saw on a Bronco forum...

Quote on

Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson were regarded as being among the best GMs in the NFL before they won rings; they were regarded as such because they ran perennially competitive teams who contended for, even if hadn't yet won, the ultimate prize and operated "destination" franchises.

Quote off

I agree with this. Thompson and Newsome have allowed their franchise to defy gravity, stay at or near competitive levels, going to SB's and having top talent over the course of time.

People who attack either guy just ain't paying attention.

What's weird to me in a sense is that it seems clear TT is about two years or three, tops, from leaving as GM. You'd think a guy in that spot would be like a drunk with a $500 bill in his pocket ten minutes before bar closing. Dude ought to be buying up free agents and trading up for one or two special draft picks and re-signing his own like a drunken sailor - or like Mike Sherman.

But he's not. Where's your legacy, man? Spend your kids' inheritance, Ted! You can't take it with you! Leave the team in shambles, but go for it now! Come on, Ted. You can do it!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

What's weird to me in a sense is that it seems clear TT is about two years or three, tops, from leaving as GM. You'd think a guy in that spot would be like a drunk with a $500 bill in his pocket ten minutes before bar closing. Dude ought to be buying up free agents and trading up for one or two special draft picks and re-signing his own like a drunken sailor - or like Mike Sherman.

But he's not. Where's your legacy, man? Spend your kids' inheritance, Ted! You can't take it with you! Leave the team in shambles, but go for it now! Come on, Ted. You can do it!

An interesting point Fritz, but I don't think he's going anywhere until Rodgers starts losing it. Thats why he offered Jennings 10mil/year in 2012 and Raji 8 million/year in 2013. Had both agreed we would have much less cap space.

[Fritz]

An interesting point Fritz, but I don't think he's going anywhere until Rodgers starts losing it. Thats why he offered Jennings 10mil/year in 2012 and Raji 8 million/year in 2013. Had both agreed we would have much less cap space.

I certainly don't have any inside info about Ted's or MM's plans, but somehow I get this sense - I guess from the occasional report that TT really prefers scouting to the whole GM shebang, plus his age - that TT only has two or three more seasons left. And once he's gone, I'm not sure how MM can carry on as "just" the coach. and besides that, Stubby has mentioned before he has a definite timeline in mind for this coaching thing.

And though part of me wishes TT would blow some cash on some players, it also wouldn't make sense in the long run. In all our discussions and gnashing of teeth over Shields, rarely has anyone tried to figure out what Nelson and Cobb are going to cost next year, and surely Thompson must factor those prices into whatever he's going to do with Shields.

Ted's nature seems to me to be the type that will try to leave the team on a very green field for his successor. TT is the kind of guy who will leave the next GM with two first round picks, a second, two thirds, and three fourths in his first draft, and the new GM will have a billion dollars in cap space to work with.

But as I said, I do wish TT would unleash the purse strings enough to re-sign Shields and on top of that, Jones, Neal, and a couple others. and maybe even sign one FA to some mid-level deal.

But then again, I still want to date Drew Barrymore, too.