After 1 preseason game - Pack it in, the season is already over

[sharpe1027]

If a guy projects as a 10 pick and he gets picked 9-11, or some such, he didn't fall, he got picked where he was projected. AR fell like a rock, no question. It was almost embarrassing at the time. In retrospect, of course, it was criminal. Almost every draft prognosticator had AR going before #24. Most had him as a top 10 pick. Almost ALL picks seldom fall. By the very nature of the number of draftees, there are as many that fall as there are "reaches". It is inarguable that if ANY GM in the NFL had ANY idea that AR would be as good as he is, clearly he doesn't fall to #24. Given that he was projected to go WELL before 24, if TT thought that AR was "his guy", he would have been a fool to not have traded up to get him, so that any one of the MANY other teams that passed on him, would not steal his gem. So to agree with Red, the pick was luck and the resultant careers of TT, MM and MM have largely been too.

Basically, the conclusion I reach from your logic is that if you pick based up the majority of so called experts you are absolved of credit for a pick. Since it should work both ways, Hawk was simply an unlucky pick.

[Joemailman]

Ridiculous. TT could have just as easily passed on Rodgers just as the other teams before him did, and pick more for need. Was it an ingenious pick? No, but it was a good, solid GM decision. He saw an opportunity that all those teams before him did not, and he took it. Trading up to get Matthews was also a good, solid GM decision, just as was trading down and being able to get the likes of Nelson.

How many of you who now claim it to be nothing but luck were the ones blasting TT for wasting a pick on a QB and that fall chuckling over AR's poor play initially? How many of you predicted Brohm was going to push AR away and become the starter? There were an awful lot at the time, most will not now admit it. Instead, now it is simply blind luck that TT got AR.

The fact that he was predicted to go high is meaningless for two reasons. It is not uncommon for the predictions to be wrong, and it is very common for the highly regarded players to fail miserably anyway.

If you "blame" TT for taking Hawk, you have to also credit him for taking AR. In reality, he is responsible for both.

I agree with everything you said. The thing I would add is that in 2004 the Packers were 5th in the NFL in scoring offense and 23rd in scoring defense. Favre was still playing at a pretty high level. If TT had picked the best defensive player available, it would have been seen as a perfectly logical move. I'll bet most here (or was it still JSO?) were in favor of that idea.

As for those who think that MM deserves no credit for the career Rodgers has had, think back to the way Rodgers looked in 2005 under Sherman. He was overwhelmed. If he had had to play as a rookie, it would have been a disaster. There have been a number of rookie QB's who have come into the NFL in recent years able to play quite well as a rookie. Rodgers wasn't one of them. MM has had a lot to do with the success of Rodgers, and Rodgers would be the first to say so.

[bobblehead]

well, we all know M3 won't fire anyone for anything. so capers isn't going anywhere while fat mike is here

and the best news of all, we're trying to give the fat retard a new long term deal

so, get use to capers and his fucked up seive of a D. at least we have a high powered high scoring offense that can usually put up more points then the D allows

can you imagine our team without rodgers, we wouldn't win a fucking game. oh right, we don't have to imagine, we saw just how shitty this team was when a-rod was out

so, we're back to what i've brought up before. TT, M3 and the rest of the front office and coaching staff are just riding the coat tails of rodgers, they all owe their careers to him. they have managed to build and coach a team that is just complete shit without him. imagine if we actually had coaches that could teach and improve players each and every year

What happened to you man? You used to have somewhat insightful readable posts, but now days you sound more like rbaloha than Red.

[bobblehead]

Just in case you didn't know it's 2014 not 2010 anymore. There's a saying that even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while, 2010 was Dom's nut. That all said, I am not totally ready to write the D off based on one pre season game. I will say however, I have ZERO confidence in Capers, so yet another failing defensive season would not surprise me.

Blind squirrels find nuts, not win superbowls. I don't believe in luck of that caliber.

[bobblehead]

Who drafted him?

Who coached him?

Tell me again how Rodgers carried the team versus the Bears in the NFCCG? Tell me again how Rodgers carried the team versus the Eagles the week before. Did he drag the team kicking and screaming into the playoffs in 09?

He is the best player on the team. He's not Jesus.

Funny enough the same fans that take credit from TT and MM are the ones who were pissed at him for cutting brent loose in favor of Rodgers.

[bobblehead]

I in reality have more respect for our front office that I publicly admit, but this argument rings hollow to me. AR fell to us. NO QUESTION. Its no more of an argument at how great of a GM Bellicheat is because of genius of jumping up and grabbing Brady. As to who coached him. Its the same guy that doesn't take any of the blame for AR holding on to the ball too long of going for the long pass rather than checking down. MM didn't make AR the great QB he is. AR is a great QB. If you want to judge AR as being the result of coaching then you can't not blame the coaching for the things that AR doesn't do well. No one here called him Jesus, but he might be Abraham or Moses. Second on the team would be Jude at best.

Again, same fans were pissed at TT for not grabbing a player to help old brent make one last run at it. HUGE mistake wasting brents final years by drafting his successor.

[wist43]

It isn't that I'm calling for "big clods" on the line... what needs to happen is the scheme needs to be designed around the players and the skills they bring to the table - not drafting a bunch of "good football players" and then throw them in anywhere.

Why not play corners at NT, and NT's at corner??

TT drafted a bunch of 4-3 DT's - and Capers misuses them.

TT brings in some fat guys like Raji, Jolly, and Pickett - and Capers misuses them.

We're supposed to be a 3-4 team, with the emphasis on 4; but TT doesn't much care about LB's it would seem, as he is fine having slugs like Hawk and Jones in his starting lineup - and Capers misuses them anyway!!!

I'm an advocate of the 3-4 base, and 3-3 nickel... TT should be targetting players to fit that scheme, but since he's not, Capers should be doctoring his scheme to accomodate the players TT is bringing in; but Capers isn't holding up his end of the bargain either.

Bottom line is, TT and Capers are both fucking up the defense... and have been for quite a while now. I have exactly zero faith that Capers will do anything other than completely fuck up what he's been given - he needs to retire.

Since nothing has changed except personnel - we can only hope that this year will be the straw that broke the camel's back, and TT finally fires Capers after the season ends. We have the overall talent to contend for a title, but I don't like our chances b/c of the mess that Capers has made of the defense.

[wist43]

The game has changed so much, that it is logical that schemes will change... but regardless of what scheme you run, you need to acquire players that can perform certain duties. Like I said, you can't put a NT at corner - and then when he fails complain that he didn't do his job.

There is a complete disconnect between TT and Capers, and it shows up on the field. TT talked about "body type" and acquiring players that fit the 3-4... at least that's what he talked about 5 years ago.

TT also said that he wasn't that concerned about finding players that could perform within a certain scheme, but rather he was simply more concerned with finding "good football players"... well, I'm sure that D. Jones, Perry, Daniels, Worthy, et al, are fine players when you ask them to perform to their strengths, but asking them to 2-gap, or eat up blocks, or take on double teams?? You might as well ask them to go out and cover Calvin Johnson.

The problem isn't the players - the problem is Capers.

[denverYooper]

Blind squirrels find nuts, not win superbowls. I don't believe in luck of that caliber.

QFT

[Zool]

This type of thread is normally an offseason deal. Glad to see it carrying over into the preseason.

[ThunderDan]

I was camping with the family this weekend and wasn't able to watch the game live. I got home and went to Packerrats and this is the first thread I saw. I thought fuck TENN gashed us and the D played like shit. I didn't know the score.

Then I turned on the game that I DVRed.

First series the D holds TENN to a 3-and-out. Second series should have been a 3-and-out but a holding call on a DB on a pass that wasn't really catchable. So TENN gets a new set of downs and the D doesn't give up a first down and TENN has to punt again.

Adams muffs the punt and TENN got it back. The next play TENN rumbles in from 13 yards out where either Brad Jones or one of the safeties blew an assignment and cost the Packers a TD.

Can't say I saw anything that will dampen my enthusiasm for the season. In fact our running game looked good. We ran for 145 yards with no deep passing threat for 4+ yards per carry.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Starks is a very good NFL back, and he's #2. Offense is absolutely stacked.

[Patler]

well, we all know M3 won't fire anyone for anything. so capers isn't going anywhere while fat mike is here

Bob Sanders, Carl Hairston, Robert Nunn, Kurt Schottenheimer, Lionel Washington. Rock Gullickson, Ty Knott, Mike Stock and Chad Morton would probably disagree!

It was just a couple years ago, before the 2014 off-season firings, that there was an article critical of MM for not showing the loyalty to his staff that most NFL head coaches do. It suggested that he would have a hard time filling openings on his staff because of it. It also suggested that some who had resigned did so under pressure, and we saw more of that this year in addition to the firings.

[Teamcheez1]

I was camping with the family this weekend and wasn't able to watch the game live. I got home and went to Packerrats and this is the first thread I saw. I thought fuck TENN gashed us and the D played like shit. I didn't know the score.

Then I turned on the game that I DVRed.

First series the D holds TENN to a 3-and-out. Second series should have been a 3-and-out but a holding call on a DB on a pass that wasn't really catchable. So TENN gets a new set of downs and the D doesn't give up a first down and TENN has to punt again.

Adams muffs the punt and TENN got it back. The next play TENN rumbles in from 13 yards out where either Brad Jones or one of the safeties blew an assignment and cost the Packers a TD.

Can't say I saw anything that will dampen my enthusiasm for the season. In fact our running game looked good. We ran for 145 yards with no deep passing threat for 4+ yards per carry.

Agreed. I am always amazed at the psychic ability on this forum after seeing the defense play 10 minutes in the first preseason game.

[pbmax]

If a guy projects as a 10 pick and he gets picked 9-11, or some such, he didn't fall, he got picked where he was projected. AR fell like a rock, no question. It was almost embarrassing at the time. In retrospect, of course, it was criminal. Almost every draft prognosticator had AR going before #24. Most had him as a top 10 pick. Almost ALL picks seldom fall. By the very nature of the number of draftees, there are as many that fall as there are "reaches". It is inarguable that if ANY GM in the NFL had ANY idea that AR would be as good as he is, clearly he doesn't fall to #24. Given that he was projected to go WELL before 24, if TT thought that AR was "his guy", he would have been a fool to not have traded up to get him, so that any one of the MANY other teams that passed on him, would not steal his gem. So to agree with Red, the pick was luck and the resultant careers of TT, MM and MM have largely been too.

The entire logic of this line of thinking is premised on there being a correct or consensus ranking of draft players among teams and that we have access to it.

We don't and there is no consensus. And that doesn't even get into the question of need versus talent.