The Defense - Again, the Defense :(

[Bossman641]

For all the bitching about capers and the D, the players missed 18 tackles last Thursday. Tough to judge any scheme when you have basically a quarter season's worth of missed tackles in 1 game.

Oh ya, the Saints and their fundamentally sound scheme had 23 missed tackles last weekend.

[Fritz]

For all the bitching about capers and the D, the players missed 18 tackles last Thursday. Tough to judge any scheme when you have basically a quarter season's worth of missed tackles in 1 game.

Oh ya, the Saints and their fundamentally sound scheme had 23 missed tackles last weekend.

I have very mixed feelings about the root cause of the lousy, soft defensive performance. On the one hand, it seems to me that if you're on opposing OC, you'll do very well if you use a lot of misdirection. This game reminded me of the SF playoff game - players flowing one way, the ball going the other, and gaping holes for the guy with the ball. That, to me, is along the lines of a defensive coordinator's fault.

On the other hand, Capers seemed to put the defense in a position to make plays - how many times did you see Lynch get met in the backfield, only to have him run the guy over? Or how many times did you see a guy whiff on an arm tackle that would've kept Lynch to a two yard gain? How many times did Brad Jones fuck up what would've been a third down stop? How many times did you see a Packer defender not make the interception or not recover the fumble?

Surely he's teaching this shit. Please don't tell me he doesn't teach tackling. But the players are sucking at tackling and finishing plays. Why? We've been hearing about "fixing" this shit since 2011, and except for a brief stretch at the beginning of last season, there has been a stench on the defensive side of the ball.

I wonder sometimes if TT drafts guys that are too good of "Packer People." I don't want eleven thugs on the defensive side of the ball - that doesn't work - but I would like to see at least a couple guys that really bring it. Mean bastards. Like Wayne Simmons was.

I'm really disgusted with this defense. Really disgusted. I'm not giving up yet - it's only the first game, for gosh sakes - but so far this pattern of getting gashed and playing soft is just continuing, despite the changes supposedly made.

[Pugger]

After Sunday we'll be 0-2 so why should I bother watching?

[wist43]

Couple of quotes from this article...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-defense-knows-it-will-be-better-b99346671z1-274428611.html

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"'Let me first give you the positives,' Capers started on Monday.

He didn't speak for too long. Capers got into the negatives, and from tackling to communication breakdowns to missed opportunities, that list was painful."

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"On Lynch's 9-yard touchdown run, the Packers had 10 players on the field. That's why the Packers scratched the 4-3 for their base 3-4 in the second half — Capers decided to let players play fast.

Green Bay also was in the 4-3 on Wilson's read-option, a 33-yard touchdown pass to Ricardo Lockette. On that backbreaking play, cornerback Sam Shields was correct in playing the run — Capers assured it was his job to contain Wilson the runner. But Clinton-Dix was then supposed to streak over to cover the pass.

Not ideal. The Seahawks caught Green Bay.

"It wasn't a good defense to be in for that play," Hyde said. "So it kind of messed us up a little bit. So you can just see, he can hand it off, he can keep it, he can pass it. There are so many elements you have to be aware about."

Eyes zeroed into the backfield pre-snap, Shields was responsible for the widest man on the field (Wilson), Clinton-Dix was late sliding over and then missed the open-field tackle, too."

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"It wasn't a good defense to be in for that play..."??

Ya think??

Capers has gone completely stupid... of all the embarrassing plays from that game, that one has to stand out as an example of Capers throwing a defense out there that is fundamentally unsound.

What idiot would design a defense that allows a WR to run free off the line, with 20 yds of uncontested turf in front of him, while the QB is still behind the LOS?? With the expectation that a rookie S will cover 20 some yds of real estate, and be asked to make an open field tackle with no support inside or out??

Seriously, that is beyond unsound - that is stupid, stupid, stupid. You guys may bitch about the missed and broken tackles - but Capers is the one who put those guys in those bad positions.

Yes, most of the missed tackles are on the players, but a lot of that has to do with the DC not having the right players in the right positions to make plays.

The whole thing is a God-awful mess.

[wist43]

Here is a "chalk talk" of that play by Seattle's 710 ESPN analyst Brock Huard.

That is called - being completely outcoached.

And notice he has it listed as a 3-4, i.e. an Elephant with Peppers as a LB - he has it listed that way, b/c that is what it is.

No wonder we can't play defense - those idiots we have coaching the defense don't even know a 3-4 from a 4-3, lol...

Wow, just wow!!! It's painful to watch and to think that is my team doing that idiotic shit!!!

[Maxie the Taxi]

I thought the emphasis this season on defense was supposed to be on simplicity. Still we're hearing Capers talking about "communication breakdowns" and his inability to get the right player groups into the game on time. Stubby said he was disappointed that the assistant coaches weren't operating efficiently. The players are talking about mistakes and needing "experience." ( "Gaining experience will help," Hyde said, "and making some mistakes. We made a lot of mistakes in Seattle, and we just have to learn from them.") Listening to Capers talk you almost have to be a Ph.D to follow him.

This all seems to me to indicate that either the new system is not as simple as advertised, or that the changeover from the old system has the players confused, or that the players are not able to "play fast" because they still feel unsure of their assignments. Maybe it's all of the above.

It all comes down to the coaches getting the players in position to succeed. Seattle coaches did. Green Bay coaches didn't.

[pbmax]

Yes, in the history of football no well designed defense has been caught by a play that left a rookie safety one on one with a WR.

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball · Sep 4
Seattle scored on the same concept Auburn scored a late TD on vs Alabama, with zone read, keep or throw downfield: http://i5.minus.com/ih3R8tYvXniXl.jpg …


Its football not The Battle for Europe. For every defensive call, whether you are Capers, Saban, Belichick or LeBeau, you can get pantsed by the right call.

[pbmax]

I thought the emphasis this season on defense was supposed to be on simplicity. Still we're hearing Capers talking about "communication breakdowns" and his inability to get the right player groups into the game on time. Stubby said he was disappointed that the assistant coaches weren't operating efficiently. The players are talking about mistakes and needing "experience." ( "Gaining experience will help," Hyde said, "and making some mistakes. We made a lot of mistakes in Seattle, and we just have to learn from them.") Listening to Capers talk you almost have to be a Ph.D to follow him.

This all seems to me to indicate that either the new system is not as simple as advertised, or that the changeover from the old system has the players confused, or that the players are not able to "play fast" because they still feel unsure of their assignments. Maybe it's all of the above.

It all comes down to the coaches getting the players in position to succeed. Seattle coaches did. Green Bay coaches didn't.

I agree with all of this, except simplicity in this case meant fewer fronts and formations. The only simplicity we know about seems to be technique assignments for the front 7. Otherwise, it looks the same. But I am not sure they promised more.

I also don't fully understand the communication problem from the first half. Capers D has often matched up personnel with nickel and dime. Was it just late Seattle subs that caused the problem? Was it the noise?

They do have players in new positions (Hayward is back, Hyde is at safety, rookie safety in Dix, Jones is a SAM now plus Peppers and Guion and Jones in base) so I do expect some growing pains.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Here's another eyeopener for me (http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-pa...me-breakdown):

Against Seattle, the Packer offense ran 62 plays. Basically 6 players (Rodgers, Bakhtiari, Lange, Linsley, Sitton and Nelson) played every offensive down (Jordy played 61). Bulaga would have played every down but was hurt. Sherrod played the downs Bulaga missed.

Randall Cobb played 57 offensive plays.

The remaining snaps (192) were spread out among 9 players, which is an average of 21 plays each. (Injuries to Richard Rodgers and Lacy accounted for some of this.)

Now look at the defense which was in there for 70 Seattle offensive plays:

Only 4 defensive Packers played all 70 defensive plays (Brad Jones, T. Williams, Shields, and Burnett).

Claymaker and Peppers played 66 and 59 plays respectively.

The remaining defensive snaps (364) were spread out among 10 players for an average of 36 snaps each.

A couple of things jump out at me immediately:

First, why is Brad Jones in there for every defensive play? (Lattimore and Barrington didn't play a single snap.)

Second, Capers is shuffling a lot of players on and off the field throughout the game. We've heard of running back "by committee." Capers is playing defense by committee.

My question and conclusion:

I think there is more consistency and less mistakes in the offense because Stubby fields his best core players the vast majority of the time.

On the other hand, Capers' defense suffers from many mistakes, communication errors and inconsistency because he doesn't have his best players on the field most of the time. (And he has Jones on the field all of the time.)

It's almost like Capers believes in his schemes and formations more than in his players.

Maybe it's time for Capers' to settle on 8 or 9 core players and let them play most of the game. He could still run varying formations and schemes, but there would be more consistency because it would be the same top players in there performing for him.

The bottom line for me is screw the fancy defenses. Play something simple and play it with your best eleven players on the field.

[wist43]

Here's another eyeopener for me (http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-pa...me-breakdown):

Against Seattle, the Packer offense ran 62 plays. Basically 6 players (Rodgers, Bakhtiari, Lange, Linsley, Sitton and Nelson) played every offensive down (Jordy played 61). Bulaga would have played every down but was hurt. Sherrod played the downs Bulaga missed.

Randall Cobb played 57 offensive plays.

The remaining snaps (192) were spread out among 9 players, which is an average of 21 plays each. (Injuries to Richard Rodgers and Lacy accounted for some of this.)

Now look at the defense which was in there for 70 Seattle offensive plays:

Only 4 defensive Packers played all 70 defensive plays (Brad Jones, T. Williams, Shields, and Burnett).

Claymaker and Peppers played 66 and 59 plays respectively.

The remaining defensive snaps (364) were spread out among 10 players for an average of 36 snaps each.

A couple of things jump out at me immediately:

First, why is Brad Jones in there for every defensive play? (Lattimore and Barrington didn't play a single snap.)

Second, Capers is shuffling a lot of players on and off the field throughout the game. We've heard of running back "by committee." Capers is playing defense by committee.

My question and conclusion:

I think there is more consistency and less mistakes in the offense because Stubby fields his best core players the vast majority of the time.

On the other hand, Capers' defense suffers from many mistakes, communication errors and inconsistency because he doesn't have his best players on the field most of the time. (And he has Jones on the field all of the time.)

It's almost like Capers believes in his schemes and formations more than in his players.

Maybe it's time for Capers' to settle on 8 or 9 core players and let them play most of the game. He could still run varying formations and schemes, but there would be more consistency because it would be the same top players in there performing for him.

The bottom line for me is screw the fancy defenses. Play something simple and play it with your best eleven players on the field.

Good post Maxi... I agree, with the perpetual youth movement - there are simply too many moving parts, too many calls, too many alignments.

The miscommunication, missed assignments, players out of position... you would think the Packer braintrust would figure this stuff out, but we have years worth of evidence that says they are blind to the fact that perpetual youth requires some accomadation in how the defense can function.

[pbmax]

Based on Pro Football Focus numbers:

Packer Report @PackerReport 11h
Based on @PFF numbers, #Packers defense missed 18 tackles [Thursday]. Rest of NFC North combined for 16.

Packer Report @PackerReport 10h
For the record, #Packers tackling in 2013 was barely below average. 2012, it was great.

[denverYooper]

It could be worse. They could have Pittsburgh's defense. Yeesh.

[pbmax]

It could be worse. They could have Pittsburgh's defense. Yeesh.

Great offseason quote:

Tyler Dunne @TyDunne 11h
OK so this is why, back at Senior Bowl in Jan., Dick LeBeau said that "We’re talking about Dom and I’ve got my own problems." Yikes, Pitt.

[ThunderDan]

Funny, I was watching the game last night and BALT was running the 2-4. Phil Simms even comment that, "when your two OLBs are as big as the BALT OLBs its like having 4 DL in the game."

[denverYooper]

Funny, I was watching the game last night and BALT was running the 2-4. Phil Simms even comment that, "when your two OLBs are as big as the BALT OLBs its like having 4 DL in the game."

Upshaw is a monster LB.