More Banjo: @ Saints Week Oh Who the *$%&! Cares

[Cleft Crusty]

Now I find you in here trashing a 'fan' of the Green Bay Packers.

fixed it for you. I was only responding to one 'fan.'

Clefty wasn't sure he could still post. I have no interest in providing any more content to this forum, but every once in a while I check in here and see there are a very few (one one) insolent, insufferable moron(s) in need of a beat down. The reaction was reflexive, which came as somewhat of a relief as Clefty was unaware he still has reflexes.

[Guiness]

Sure there were. As I wrote in another post, there are usually some of those in every game. But I didn't see guys running absolutely clear all night long. Yes, they were "open" and Brees put it on the money all night long.

Ya, I saw that after I posted. Usually when someone is wide open, on the replay you see that someone slipped, or ran into his own player, something, there's a reason for it. There were a couple of times in this game where someone was just flat out uncovered...running a flat route I think, go figure.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers (and Flynn) still photobombing the game captain photos. http://www.packers.com/media-center/...f104cb22#start

[Joemailman]

"We need to tackle the damn ball carrier and put him on the ground," he said. "That's what we'll be focused on."

Is this simply frustration with the players, or is MM starting to run out of patience with his defensive coaching staff? He's stuck with Capers for a long time, but he's fired his defensive coaching staff before.

[George Cumby]

Is this simply frustration with the players, or is MM starting to run out of patience with his defensive coaching staff? He's stuck with Capers for a long time, but he's fired his defensive coaching staff before.

I hope the latter. The players, mostly, are there.

[Maxie the Taxi]

"We need to tackle the damn ball carrier and put him on the ground," he said. "That's what we'll be focused on."

Is this simply frustration with the players, or is MM starting to run out of patience with his defensive coaching staff? He's stuck with Capers for a long time, but he's fired his defensive coaching staff before.

When I hear this kind of thing from McCarthy, I get frustrated. It's kind of like the Sales Manager of a declining company saying: "We've got to go out and beat the bushes and close sales." As PB might say, it's just "word salad."

There is definitely something wrong in Green Bay and it's been wrong for some time. The Packers' defense is a mess. In a big game against an elite QB the defense got gashed for 200 yards on the ground and 300 yards through the air.

What's the answer? "We need to tackle the damn ball carrier." Well, tackling the ball carrier helps, but the problems run deeper than that.

PERSONNEL -- The Packers are undersized and under-manned on the D-line. The Saints had five guys on their O-line who are well over 300 lbs. The Pack's D-line is barely over 300 lbs. per man. Two of these men are untested rookies. And this undersizing is by design. Bigger, tested D-linemen like Pickett and Jolly have been available all season after Raji went down, but the Packers' brain trust passed on them.

SCHEME -- So, what is Dom Capers' answer to this intentional mismatch? Play only two D-lineman! That didn't work out too well against the Saints, so reportedly Dom is reconsidering. According to Rob Demovsky:

"Capers might have to decide whether he can continue to play his undersized nickel package, which features just two defensive linemen, as his primary defensive look."

While Stubby rages about putting the ball carrier on the ground, Dom doesn't seem too worried:

"I’ve seen us through the first half of the season play pretty good run defense, so I feel like we can," defensive coordinator Dom Capers insisted Monday. "You look at last night, you might question it a little bit. But I've seen us have our moments where we've played good run defense. That's what we've got to do this second half. We know when you have something like that you get tested, and you get tested until you take care of it."

Are you kidding me? He has seen his team "have our moments" of good run defense?

Now that's the sense of urgency Stubby is no doubt looking for out of his Defensive Coordinator!

To be fair to Dom, I've seen the Packers' run defense have its moments too, but it's been damn few and far between.

HEAD COACHING -- However, Stubby doesn't want to talk about scheme and personnel, which I have just done:

"Everybody wants to talk about scheme and personnel," McCarthy said. "That's something that you’re always weighing or looking at. Or are there other individuals who deserve opportunities? Can we use other individuals a certain way? That's really what we talk about as coaches day-in and day-out. Our issue is on run D are fundamental. We need to do a better job of staying square [and] getting in our gaps."

Yes, our 200 lb. DB's need to fill the gaps between those 300+ offensive linemen and stay square. I can see that.

In my judgement the real problem IS scheme and personnel. Our personnel have been tailored to fit Capers' scheme and we're paying the price for it.

[Joemailman]

When I hear this kind of thing from McCarthy, I get frustrated. It's kind of like the Sales Manager of a declining company saying: "We've got to go out and beat the bushes and close sales." As PB might say, it's just "word salad."

There is definitely something wrong in Green Bay and it's been wrong for some time. The Packers' defense is a mess. In a big game against an elite QB the defense got gashed for 200 yards on the ground and 300 yards through the air.

What's the answer? "We need to tackle the damn ball carrier." Well, tackling the ball carrier helps, but the problems run deeper than that.

PERSONNEL -- The Packers are undersized and under-manned on the D-line. The Saints had five guys on their O-line who are well over 300 lbs. The Pack's D-line is barely over 300 lbs. per man. Two of these men are untested rookies. And this undersizing is by design. Bigger, tested D-linemen like Pickett and Jolly have been available all season after Raji went down, but the Packers' brain trust passed on them.

SCHEME -- So, what is Dom Capers' answer to this intentional mismatch? Play only two D-lineman! That didn't work out too well against the Saints, so reportedly Dom is reconsidering. According to Rob Demovsky:

"Capers might have to decide whether he can continue to play his undersized nickel package, which features just two defensive linemen, as his primary defensive look."

While Stubby rages about putting the ball carrier on the ground, Dom doesn't seem too worried:



Are you kidding me? He has seen his team "have our moments" of good run defense?

Now that's the sense of urgency Stubby is no doubt looking for out of his Defensive Coordinator!

To be fair to Dom, I've seen the Packers' run defense have its moments too, but it's been damn few and far between.

HEAD COACHING -- However, Stubby doesn't want to talk about scheme and personnel, which I have just done:



Yes, our 200 lb. DB's need to fill the gaps between those 300+ offensive linemen and stay square. I can see that.

In my judgement the real problem IS scheme and personnel. Our personnel have been tailored to fit Capers' scheme and we're paying the price for it.

Actually, the Packers have played decent (not outstanding) run defense in half their games. The problem is they've played terrible run defense in the other half. And it's not like the teams that have run over them are so much better running the ball than the other teams. They've just been maddeningly inconsistent when it comes to playing the run. I think that's what has MM so frustrated. It looked like they had had 3 consecutive pretty good weeks, and then New Orleans happened. I don't think the problem is really the scheme, or the lack of size up front. If that were the case, I think they'd be consistently bad unless facing a poor running team. The real problem I think is a combination of poor tackling, and poor gap discipline. Whether the Packers need a wholesale personnel change or a coaching change is the big question. The Packers under Capers will never be a great run-stuffing team because of the amount of nickel Capers uses. But they have shown the ability to play middle-of-the-road run defense which would be good enough if they could do it consistently.

[KYPack]

I dunno, Joe Joe.

We are the worst team in the NFL vs the rush.

The GBP ain't getting gashed, we just don't stop the run.

We've given up 70 rushing 1st downs. A lot more than the next worst D.

Denver is the #1 rush D, they've given up 24 rush 1st's.

We've got to improve to mediocre against the run to have a chance in the play-offs ( I know, play-offs???)

I don't think we'll do it.

[George Cumby]

Soooooooooo...... Fire Capers???????

[Joemailman]

Soooooooooo...... Fire Capers???????

If performances like Sunday night become the norm the rest of the year, then yes. You just can't stop a great QB when it's 2nd and 3 all night.

[Pugger]

Soooooooooo...... Fire Capers???????

I don't see MM firing Capers before the season is over so unless our offense becomes unstoppable we will be 1 and done yet again in the post season if we get there.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If the choice comes down to "wholesale personnel" change or a coaching change, goodbye Capers and company.

I think we have high quality players but Capers' act is getting old and tired like me. When he first arrived in Green Bay, Dom's emphasis was on the pass rush and doing it creatively, i.e., devising ways to put his talented players in positions to succeed. When we faced an elite QB, Dom figured a way to pressure him. That pressure lead to a lot of good things happening, namely turnovers and defensive scores. The philosophy was bend but not break. Now, somehow, it's morphed into just plain breaking.

The whole Capers defense nowadays has become too cerebral, too technical. Not instinctive enough. Stubby used to harp about the players not trusting the system. Or blaming defensive woes on "communication breakdowns." Now he's resorted to reminding his defensive players that tackling is about putting the ball carrier on the ground.

Maybe after the season Dom retires and some young guy with high energy and renewed motivation takes over.

[Patler]

MM has now had two entirely different defensive coaching staffs (except for Winston Moss), and having a good defense remains the aberration, not the norm.
The same can be said for ST's.
Has he had bad staffs twice for each, D and ST?
Is it on TT?

...or, is there something about MM's entire program layout, for off season, training camp and in season, that does not foster quality performances from ST and D units? MM is an acknowledged micro-manager in terms of practice layouts, with detail for what everyone is doing every minute of time. He has acknowledged having many volumes of notebooks laying out every minute of every day when the team is in the facilities. His system has consistently turned out exceptional offenses and bad defenses and special teams.

If I were to select one word to describe his offenses, it is "cerebral". Players have to read, communicate and react. Everyone has to read and react the same. His practices are geared to efficiency, with an emphasis on calm. He talks about teaching, says littlea bout and almost practices against emotion. This seems to work for offensive performance, especially for the passing game, and maybe somewhat less successfully for a running game. Is his "thinking man" approach to workouts and practices inconsistent with the development of the playing characteristics that make for good defenses and special teams?

To borrow a phrase, does MM's program approach develop teams that are too soft to play well on D and ST, while being high achievers on O?

[pbmax]

MM has now had two entirely different defensive coaching staffs (except for Winston Moss), and having a good defense remains the aberration, not the norm.
The same can be said for ST's.
Has he had bad staffs twice for each, D and ST?
Is it on TT?

...or, is there something about MM's entire program layout, for off season, training camp and in season, that does not foster quality performances from ST and D units? MM is an acknowledged micro-manager in terms of practice layouts, with detail for what everyone is doing every minute of time. He has acknowledged having many volumes of notebooks laying out every minute of every day when the team is in the facilities. His system has consistently turned out exceptional offenses and bad defenses and special teams.

If I were to select one word to describe his offenses, it is "cerebral". Players have to read, communicate and react. Everyone has to read and react the same. His practices are geared to efficiency, with an emphasis on calm. He talks about teaching, says littlea bout and almost practices against emotion. This seems to work for offensive performance, especially for the passing game, and maybe somewhat less successfully for a running game. Is his "thinking man" approach to workouts and practices inconsistent with the development of the playing characteristics that make for good defenses and special teams?

To borrow a phrase, does MM's program approach develop teams that are too soft to play well on D and ST, while being high achievers on O?

Winner. I actually tried to write something similar yesterday but abandoned it at 8,500 words of woodbuckian denseness.

Though I don't think its the cerebral approach itself that is the limiting factor. Rather, like you need a nutrition science consultant to keep players up to the speed of the practices (same with strength and conditioning guys), you need D coaches who can create drills and team periods that will produce good defense under the regime as enacted by the HC. There is a lot of old school on the D side of the ball.

[pbmax]

I think we have high quality players but Capers' act is getting old and tired like me. When he first arrived in Green Bay, Dom's emphasis was on the pass rush and doing it creatively, i.e., devising ways to put his talented players in positions to succeed. When we faced an elite QB, Dom figured a way to pressure him. That pressure lead to a lot of good things happening, namely turnovers and defensive scores. The philosophy was bend but not break. Now, somehow, it's morphed into just plain breaking.

See, I think this analysis is self contradictory. When Capers arrived, he had a great run defense and that was where the emphasis was. He had to scheme and get nuts with fronts and blitzes to get pressure. The only year they both worked in concert was 2010, not surprisingly.

Since then, the pass rush has been middling and trending down. But unlike 2009, so is the run D. Peppers has helped the pass D, but it hasn't been consistent enough to stop opposing O's.