More Banjo: Week 17 vs Vikings

[pbmax]

^^ I'm not arguing for more short passes, just short passes that actually make sense. The tosses in the flat, etc. that go for -2 yards are just stupid. R. Rodgers has broken one tackle all year. He can't beat anyone, so don't ask him to do it. Cobb is too tiny to win those battles, Kuhn is too slow. Get upfield or don't throw to them. Take a knee if no one is open.

Or throw high to the tall guy or the leaper. Or deep to the fast guy.

I don't mind them as they can break, even if their success rate is not 100%. But they are not my favorite 3rd down play. And I agree Rodgers should be blocking not running those throws.

[mraynrand]

Reading the comments after the game it's clear the Packers have little clue why they are failing, and have no idea what to do about it.

[pbmax]

Reading the comments after the game it's clear the Packers have little clue why they are failing, and have no idea what to do about it.

I agree. Otherwise there would have been more and different changes. No matter what Joe Morgan thinks, you don't just get more consistent by doing the same failing thing more and more. Unless your goal is to be consistently poor.

This might be an inevitable feature of McCarthy's offense and if so, that is problematic in the least (maybe for any offense). Favre spent all of 2007 changing things at the line and getting a cold shoulder from the sideline in return. Rodgers is now doing something similar (even if it more often takes the form of dropping back and waiting for lightning to strike).

Its not that the scheme is a failure. But circumstances have descended that render it inoperable. In 2007, the offense was in a very similar quagmire at the start of the season until slowly gaining traction with Grant running ZBS.

So they take the opportunity to retire Brett and put a QB in that is more willing to run it as called. After 1.5 years of trial and error, it takes off. But it evolves past the original concept to deal with the ever changing responses of the defense. And as that change happens, Rodgers is more at the helm.

Now its a convoluted mess without the parts available to make it work. I think the no huddle was a partial response to this as was the dedication to getting Lacy the ball. But the no-huddle solved some issues (less deep receiving corps) and exacerbated others (speed, experience, deep targets).

He needs a complete re-think. I almost want Clements to find another job just to get someone else in there to push M3 in a new direction.

[mraynrand]

Stubby might think that all they need is a healthy Nelson and O-line (and maybe a refreshed and accurate Rodgers) and they can just line up and run it the same way as last year and the years before.

The general adaptation that might help would be to go against tendency. Line up to run, but pass. Draw on passing downs. Go under center and run some west coast stuff - check downs and slants. Throw down the middle to the TE, even if covered.

The patterns and receiver concepts have to change.

[pbmax]

Stubby might think that all they need is a healthy Nelson and O-line (and maybe a refreshed and accurate Rodgers) and they can just line up and run it the same way as last year and the years before.

The general adaptation that might help would be to go against tendency. Line up to run, but pass. Draw on passing downs. Go under center and run some west coast stuff - check downs and slants. Throw down the middle to the TE, even if covered.

The patterns and receiver concepts have to change.

I don't think 2011 through six games of 2015 were a mirage, but the further it went along, it required an overwhelming advantage somewhere or the Rodgers variation of M3's offense. Until this year, they had Rodgers and Nelson, so they had both.

If you have an O line that can pass block for 5 seconds, you can also do damage to any defense.

I thought their only hope this year was to go back to multiple packages, but even in the last two games with two TEs and Cobb in the backfield, it hasn't worked.

But let's face it, the one thing that changed this year was the inability to go deep. This has never been an offense that goes 14 pays 80 yards with frequency. I don't know if that can be fixed in a week.

[mraynrand]

I think their only hope left is to work the middle with R. Rodgers and Cobb, and a check down. Some slants, some crossing routes with Abracadabra, and some deep tries to Janis.

[pbmax]

At least this was fun. Raise your hand of you though Zook and Capers would have the best coaching year.

[Patler]

Some slants, some crossing routes with Abracadabra, and some deep tries to Janis.

Who are these guys you speak of? Do they play on offense for GB? I have heard of similar names on STs, not offense.

[pbmax]

FiveThirtyEight @FiveThirtyEight 2h2 hours ago
NFL Wild Card game win probabilities: http://53eig.ht/1MeNt66

[Bossman641]

I thought their only hope this year was to go back to multiple packages, but even in the last two games with two TEs and Cobb in the backfield, it hasn't worked.

But let's face it, the one thing that changed this year was the inability to go deep. This has never been an offense that goes 14 pays 80 yards with frequency. I don't know if that can be fixed in a week.

Seriously, does anyone have a breakdown of pass attempts by distances (0-10, 11-20, 21-30, and 30+)? Outside of the Hail Mary, I'm having a hard time remembering any passes covering 30+ yards in the air that were successful.

I personally think all the talk of coordinators having figured out MM's offense is overblown. Maybe I'm simplifying things but I don't think MM and Rodgers have suddenly forgot how to coach and play football. Sometimes it just isn't your year.

The offense (and basically any offense) has always struggled against defenses that could rush 4, play press coverage, and stop the run. We always talked of needing a TE threat to attack the middle of the field in those situations.

We never got the TE but Lacy provided enough balance that even the very good defenses like Seattle weren't able to completely shut things down. Not so this year. Defenses are getting more and more aggressive each week in playing press. The WR's are too slow/bad to make defenses pay for it, and when they actually do break free Rodgers is already running for his life. The OL and Lacy are too banged up/ineffective to make the run game work and defenses are pressing and flooding the middle to shut down the short passing game.

If anything I hope this year serves as a wakeup call to Lacy. He'll never be a model but there's no excuse for him to look the way he does. He needs to get serious about his weight and offseason conditioning rather than try it out for a week and decide it's not for him.

[Smidgeon]

Stubby might think that all they need is a healthy Nelson and O-line (and maybe a refreshed and accurate Rodgers) and they can just line up and run it the same way as last year and the years before.

The general adaptation that might help would be to go against tendency. Line up to run, but pass. Draw on passing downs. Go under center and run some west coast stuff - check downs and slants. Throw down the middle to the TE, even if covered.

The patterns and receiver concepts have to change.

If my memory serves though, the offenses are rarely the same year after year. 2010 didn't look like 2011 didn't look like 2012 didn't look like 2013 didn't look like 2014 which definitely doesn't look like 2015.

This version just does not work. But next year's might.

[Bossman641]

How did neither Abby or Janis get a single offensive snap last night?

[Carolina_Packer]

Who are these guys you speak of? Do they play on offense for GB? I have heard of similar names on STs, not offense.

Nice! I feel the same way. MM seems to think that doing the same thing will lead to production at some point. You'd like to think that the coaching staff could see how they are being defensed and come up with a clever counter-punch. I know I'm sounding dangerously close to being "scheme guy" with that comment. I think more talented players beat less talented players, but I do think you can put in creative wrinkles to fix problems. If they are defending the perimeter and bracketing the deep middle and playing two high safeties, you'd think the middle of the field might have an opening. Rodgers seems to find it on the scramble drill at times. I wonder why they don't try and get more guys involved, like Quarless now that he's back, and Abby, since he can run a route.

No matter what...the O-line being banged up and giving up pressures, the running game not being able to consistently have production, the receivers getting pressed and bracketed by LB's, there has to be a counter-punch. Schematically, the whole offense cannot be predicated on taking the top off the defense.

[Smidgeon]

Seriously, does anyone have a breakdown of pass attempts by distances (0-10, 11-20, 21-30, and 30+)? Outside of the Hail Mary, I'm having a hard time remembering any passes covering 30+ yards in the air that were successful.

I personally think all the talk of coordinators having figured out MM's offense is overblown. Maybe I'm simplifying things but I don't think MM and Rodgers have suddenly forgot how to coach and play football. Sometimes it just isn't your year.

The offense (and basically any offense) has always struggled against defenses that could rush 4, play press coverage, and stop the run. We always talked of needing a TE threat to attack the middle of the field in those situations.

We never got the TE but Lacy provided enough balance that even the very good defenses like Seattle weren't able to completely shut things down. Not so this year. Defenses are getting more and more aggressive each week in playing press. The WR's are too slow/bad to make defenses pay for it, and when they actually do break free Rodgers is already running for his life. The OL and Lacy are too banged up/ineffective to make the run game work and defenses are pressing and flooding the middle to shut down the short passing game.

If anything I hope this year serves as a wakeup call to Lacy. He'll never be a model but there's no excuse for him to look the way he does. He needs to get serious about his weight and offseason conditioning rather than try it out for a week and decide it's not for him.

Plus, I'm noticing a lot of non-calls on illegal contact against the dbs. There was a lot of grabbing in the back end yesterday. No, that's not why they lost, but the WRs don't have the suddenness to combat that defending.

[woodbuck27]

If my memory serves though, the offenses are rarely the same year after year. 2010 didn't look like 2011 didn't look like 2012 didn't look like 2013 didn't look like 2014 which definitely doesn't look like 2015.

This version just does not work. But next year's might.

Having Jordy Nelson back will be huge !

After that it's all focus. He needs to ask himself if the Packer Scouting team is earning it's money.

TT has to get more aggressive at RB.

We need more at TE. An over the middle fast/strong threat.

He has to draft for more on the OL.

He's running out of Aaron Rodgers time. ARod is absorbing too much punishment as things are now.

GO PACKERS ! GO PACK GO !