Thompson vs. Belichick

[mraynrand]

You need to develop players from within, but not at the expense of making a push for a championship.

It would be nice if, just once in a while, TT would bring in a key veteran FA, like a stout interior lineman, or a cornerback who can play in the slot and even at LB or an OLB to complement Matthews. But not TT, because he is stuck in draft and develop.

[George Cumby]

As we all know, Ted DOESNT CARE about several positions just the way Dom DOESNT CARE about defending the middle of the field.

[George Cumby]

By all accounts, Ted is honorable man.

It is well known that BB is a cheater.

I'm good with Ted.

[mraynrand]

By all accounts, Ted is honorable man..

So are they all, all HONORABLE MEN, HONORABLE MEN! THIS WAS A MAN! No tears for TT...

[George Cumby]

Awesome.

But who is Brutus?

[Guiness]

Would Belichick be the same without Brady? Who was luckier getting their QB, the Packers or the Patriots?
Before having Brady as his starter, as a head coach, Belichick was 41-57 in six full seasons and the first two games of 2001; 5-13 with the Patriots.

Not to mention Bledsoe was in NE when he got there, and while not HOF caliber, he was a pretty damn good QB himself.

[Upnorth]

No he didn't - we've had a hole at ILB for years; in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in league history, and some of us saw it coming, yet TT did nothing. He started trying to address the mess the next year, but didn't sign any FA's to fill holes.

This year, we don't have a lot of holes - TE was one, and TT surprisingly addressed it, but ILB is still a colossal mess. If he doesn't fill it in the draft, what are the odds he lifts a finger in FA after the draft?? The answer is, the odds are not good he will do anything.

TT's MO is well established - and he is criticized every year for it. We won one SB in TT's 11 year reign, hallelujah... we're going to end up with 2 SB's in the span of 25+ years all the while having 2 HOF QB's. That doesn't add up for me - I want more, I want better.

Your comment on the expectations of the 2011 defense is a bald face lie. No professional saw it coming, and some were saying our defense wa better than our offense.

[Patler]

No he didn't - we've had a hole at ILB for years; in 2011 we had one of the worst defenses in league history, and some of us saw it coming, yet TT did nothing. He started trying to address the mess the next year, but didn't sign any FA's to fill holes.

This year, we don't have a lot of holes - TE was one, and TT surprisingly addressed it, but ILB is still a colossal mess. If he doesn't fill it in the draft, what are the odds he lifts a finger in FA after the draft?? The answer is, the odds are not good he will do anything.

TT's MO is well established - and he is criticized every year for it. We won one SB in TT's 11 year reign, hallelujah... we're going to end up with 2 SB's in the span of 25+ years all the while having 2 HOF QB's. That doesn't add up for me - I want more, I want better.

Does he do what you want/suggest every year? No.
Did he do it in 2014? Absolutely.
Has he done it in 2016? Absolutely
Was he able to address every weakness? No, but no one can without creating other holes.

I have said for years that being a good GM is a balancing act, because everything you do, every trade, every FA signing, every resigning of your own players has repercussions in the future.

You probably will rant when I write this (you have in the past), but I will write it anyway, because it is true. You will always be able to find a weakness and say; "Look what he ignored!" If he signed an ILB in 2014 instead of Peppers, I suspect you would have complained about the weakness opposite Matthews. So yes, he hasn't found the answer at ILB. A team without a significant weakness usually gets there by luck and by accident. Luck by lack of injuries at positions with little or no depth. Accident by a low round draft pick or UDREFA filing a big hole beyond reasonable expectations.

That said, I have always agreed with you on one thing. One aspect of "GM'ing" is applying the finishing touch, so to speak, after a competitive roster is established. TT has tried several approaches to that, including signing Peppers in 2014 and Cook this year. It looked like it worked in 2014 when they were on the doorstep of a SB. The 2015 off season presented some challenges, as there were a number of holes to be addressed several created in that off season. I suspect TT viewed CB as a bigger issue because of the way the game is played today. He was able to strengthen that spot significantly, and I think he deserves more credit for that than many are willing to give him because many thought he selected odd players to fill those needs. Two guys that most projected as safeties in the NFL, and projected by many at lower rounds than where TT selected them. I would submit that he actually did address the ILB issue too, by getting rid of Hawk and Jones (improvement by subtraction). I expect the thinking was that Barrington+Matthews+a third from somewhere was an improvement over Hawk+Jones/Lattimore/Matthews. Had one of the right players been available, I suspect he would have taken one in the 2nd round, but there was a run on linebackers between the Packers 1st and 2nd picks. That's OK with me, I like Rollins, and think he will be a valuable player for GB.

I think the loss of Barrington was more significant in their plans than people realize, and I doubt anyone expected the WRs to crash and burn as badly as they did even with the loss of Nelson, except those applying a clear hindsight approach. Throw in a sub par year by Rodgers, Lacy experimenting with a new playing weight, the OTs and center going down for multiple games each and you get exactly what you got in 2015. That doesn't automatically mean his preparation for 2015 was faulty.

So, while I agree that part of successful GM'ing is applying the finishing touch, I believe it should not be done with a blind eye to the future; and I also believe that TT has done more in that are than he is credited for, including resigning some of his own players to short term deals, like Raji last year and the year before, Perry and Starks this year, etc. Those were done with an eye to just the next season, not the long-term future.

[wist43]

Your comment on the expectations of the 2011 defense is a bald face lie. No professional saw it coming, and some were saying our defense wa better than our offense.

I saw it coming, and a lot of other people saw it coming too... we were iffy-to-weak in the front seven going into the SB and TT let Jenkins and Green walk. Green okay, and you can make the case that Jenkins was too pricey - but then what are you going to do to replace them?? TT's answer is - nothing. We had guys like Zombo, Brad Jones, Jarius Wynn, Robert Francois, Jamari Lattimore, and of course the 'oh so pedestrian' AJ Hawk.

That's a mess of football player humanity - and TT decided to roll with it... all the way to NFL infamy.

As ayn pointed out, no one could have predicted the loss of Collins - and I admit that hurt a lot, but TT's 2011 draft, as I pointed out, went 5 of the first 6 on offense - and as it turned out in the long run, that was a terrible, terrible draft, regardless of offense or defense anyway.

Another mitigating factor is dunderdummy... he was a complete disaster that year, as opposed to just being the usual disaster that he is. Dunderdummy is an ongoing mess waiting to happen - can't necessarily put that on TT.

[Patler]

TT's MO is well established - and he is criticized every year for it. We won one SB in TT's 11 year reign, hallelujah... we're going to end up with 2 SB's in the span of 25+ years all the while having 2 HOF QB's. That doesn't add up for me - I want more, I want better.

I agree, the final result hasn't been what you hope or expect with two HOF QBs, but TT isn't responsible for all of it, because Wolf and Sherman were the GMs responsible for the Favre years. The roster and salary cap were not in good shape at all when TT arrived in 2005, essentially taking care of the Favre years. That said, I think the Packers should have won a second SB with Favre, for which I blame Holmgren and his staff, not Wolf. I also believe the Packers should have won a second SB with Rodgers already, for which I blame MM and his staff more than I blame TT.

[Patler]

I saw it coming, and a lot of other people saw it coming too... we were iffy-to-weak in the front seven going into the SB and TT let Jenkins and Green walk. Green okay, and you can make the case that Jenkins was too pricey - but then what are you going to do to replace them?? TT's answer is - nothing. We had guys like Zombo, Brad Jones, Jarius Wynn, Robert Francois, Jamari Lattimore, and of course the 'oh so pedestrian' AJ Hawk.

That's a mess of football player humanity - and TT decided to roll with it... all the way to NFL infamy.

As ayn pointed out, no one could have predicted the loss of Collins - and I admit that hurt a lot, but TT's 2011 draft, as I pointed out, went 5 of the first 6 on offense - and as it turned out in the long run, that was a terrible, terrible draft, regardless of offense or defense anyway.

Another mitigating factor is dunderdummy... he was a complete disaster that year, as opposed to just being the usual disaster that he is. Dunderdummy is an ongoing mess waiting to happen - can't necessarily put that on TT.

If you are completely objective, there were more unforeseeable issues in 2011, not just Collins career ending injury.

Tramon Williams severely injured his shoulder in, I think, game #1, and essentially played with one arm for two years. In 2011 he was especially limited. That was a huge change from 2010 when he was one of the best cover guys in the league.

Raji was a fairly dominant player in 2010, and disappeared a lot in 2011.

If Hawk continued to play as he had his first 4 or 5 years, we would still have been disappointed based on his draft spot, but not as frustrated as we became from his last 4-5 years. We didn't know it at the time, but 2010 was he transition point. He was much better before 2010, much worse after. No, he was never the All-Pro we hoped for, but he hadn't been as limiting for the defense as he bacame after that.

This one might have been expected - Woodson began to decline noticeably. To be honest, I think we saw it start in 2010. To his credit, I think he adapted after a year or so, recognizing his physical slide and embracing a new role. As I said, maybe this was entirely foreseeable, but it caused was a factor in the change from a good defense in 2010 to a miserable one in 2011.

I agree, there is a Capers factor in all of it. But he is and always has been a teflon-coated DC.

[mraynrand]

I should point out how stupid it is to complain about how you knew 2011 was going to go south and, at the same time, bark about TT doing nothing about it in the draft THAT YEAR. He should have done something the previous year, like drafting a better safety (Burnett) or versatile D-lineman/LB (Neal) or bringing in another corner in FA (Shields).

[woodbuck27]

I agree, the final result hasn't been what you hope or expect with two HOF QBs, but TT isn't responsible for all of it, because Wolf and Sherman were the GMs responsible for the Favre years. The roster and salary cap were not in good shape at all when TT arrived in 2005, essentially taking care of the Favre years. That said, I think the Packers should have won a second SB with Favre, for which I blame Holmgren and his staff, not Wolf. I also believe the Packers should have won a second SB with Rodgers already, for which I blame MM and his staff more than I blame TT.

Yes MM doesn't handle it well in terms of game management and knowing when to go for the throat in huge games.

MM likes to play it safely and settle for ties in regulation. Turn it all over to..too often the flip of a coin !

MM stays with coaches that it's too obvious to many Packer observers that need to be replaced. On that Ted Thompson could exert his power to overall manage his teams ability at the coaching level.

The Green Bay Packers have that homey 'Good Old Boys Club' thing going on. If your not growing stronger every season your going to fail.

This season should inform us.

The Aaron Rodgers cheer and Super Bowl is very possibly over or unfortunately coming to an end. Some fans like to point to the loss of Jordy Nelson as a major factor in a dramatic decline in Aaron Rodgers. Jordy Nelson will need to be the or almost Comeback Player of the Year for the Packers to get back to a Super Bowl.