Ahman Ah-rested

[Harlan Huckleby]

Haters gotta hate.
I'm gonna shake it off, shake it off.

[mraynrand]

Here is an example of a metastudy of spanking. Its conclusions are not entirely black-and-white and it finds that a large number of the studies done were flawed--not because they were politically motivated, as you assume, but probably because they were simply poorly conceived--but it still finds persuasive evidence of correlation between spanking and negative behavior.

Don't be too hasty in dismissing self esteem or in assuming that you know what someone else understands when they speak of it.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...bout-spanking/

I'm usually pretty hasty; you're just going to have to live with it.

There's a depth to corporeal punishment that shouldn't be missed. Drive by comments like Zool's look foolish. There are spankings that little kids get (smacks on their behind) that serve as a negative reinforcement when they do something dangerous like walk into the street. These are highly effective. There's actual punishment, like 5 hard shots with a belt for doing something pretty bad (this is the form things took in our house growing up). There's no doubt it was a strong reminder about consequences for bad behavior; I can report that it prevented bad behavior on my part. There are all sorts of bad hitting - the uncontrolled outbursts are all bad, even if they don't do damage , because having a parent out of control is really what sends a strong negative message. (based on history, I suspect this is true in the Green case).

On another note, there was a time when my brother and I were getting a little older (10-12 maybe), my Mom tried to spank us and she was so ineffective that my brother and I just laughed at her. It was all fun and games until Dad got home. Sort of a double backfire.

[mraynrand]

Haters gotta hate.
I'm gonna shake it off, shake it off.

I prefer to:
shake it up

[MadtownPacker]

Probably there are plenty of homes where spanking is done, and the kids turn out fine. But maybe that is because the parents are caring and attentive, and that overrides the pointless destruction of hitting the kids. We'll never know from studies.

Anecdotally, I was spanked as a kid and turned out splendidly. But is that because of my core strengths, my steely resolve to do good in the world? We can never know.

Based on this new evidence you provided I am strongly reconsidering changing my opinion from spanking to straight up drown them at birth.

Be honest HH, you have always been the runt in your family.

[Zool]

I'm usually pretty hasty; you're just going to have to live with it.

There's a depth to corporeal punishment that shouldn't be missed. Drive by comments like Zool's look foolish. There are spankings that little kids get (smacks on their behind) that serve as a negative reinforcement when they do something dangerous like walk into the street. These are highly effective. There's actual punishment, like 5 hard shots with a belt for doing something pretty bad (this is the form things took in our house growing up). There's no doubt it was a strong reminder about consequences for bad behavior; I can report that it prevented bad behavior on my part. There are all sorts of bad hitting - the uncontrolled outbursts are all bad, even if they don't do damage , because having a parent out of control is really what sends a strong negative message. (based on history, I suspect this is true in the Green case).

On another note, there was a time when my brother and I were getting a little older (10-12 maybe), my Mom tried to spank us and she was so ineffective that my brother and I just laughed at her. It was all fun and games until Dad got home. Sort of a double backfire.

So my opinion is different than yours so it's foolish. Then Hoosier sites the same studies i've read to form my opinion and it's now feasible? You must be a blast in conversation.

I still stand by my original statement. If you need to hit, you've lost and you've taught your child that hitting gets your desired effect.

[mraynrand]

So my opinion is different than yours so it's foolish. Then Hoosier sites the same studies i've read and it's now feasible? You must be a blast in conversation.

I think you can do better than a lot of your shallow drive-by posts, that's all I'm saying.

[Zool]

I think you can do better than a lot of your shallow drive-by posts, that's all I'm saying.

My time to post is limited. I try to interject opinion when I can.

[mraynrand]

My time to post is limited. I try to interject opinion when I can.

you need to re-examine your priorities.

[3irty1]

There is a cultural component to this. About 100% of my wife's students experience the level of corporal punishment our great grandfathers probably experienced. When its Adrian Peterson or Ahman Green I have a hard time clutching my pearls. The truth is not beating your kids (which I think is excellent practice for the record) is like a generation old and not everybody watches enough Dateline to get the memo. Even Tanahasi Coates writes about how his dad was noble enough to beat him "so the cops wouldn't" or some such. We see a mother in Baltimore pull her kid out of a riot while hitting him in the face and she's somehow #motheroftheyear. Seems to me there are two sets of rules here and one set of laws.

[pbmax]

There is a cultural component to this. About 100% of my wife's students experience the level of corporal punishment our great grandfathers probably experienced. When its Adrian Peterson or Ahman Green I have a hard time clutching my pearls. The truth is not beating your kids (which I think is excellent practice for the record) is like a generation old and not everybody watches enough Dateline to get the memo. Even Tanahasi Coates writes about how his dad was noble enough to beat him "so the cops wouldn't" or some such. We see a mother in Baltimore pull her kid out of a riot while hitting him in the face and she's somehow #motheroftheyear. Seems to me there are two sets of rules here and one set of laws.

Beating your children to avoid other, possibly worse beatings, might seem to be necessary, but its not desirable.

Same goes for spanking. If you can get the behavior change without the violence (I disagree with Joe that hitting is not violence, its message is pain, fear and/or humiliation no matter the velocity or frequency) it would be best to avoid it.

[call_me_ishmael]

If you teach a child to do what you say with the thread of violence, that child learns that the threat of violence gets you what you want. It's actually pretty simple and completely fucking stupid. If you hit your kid, you just lost.

Yep, this. There are a million other ways to get your point across and assert authority rather than using size/strength/violence against a person.

[Rutnstrut]

Yep, this. There are a million other ways to get your point across and assert authority rather than using size/strength/violence against a person.

I suppose your approach would be give them a hug and tell them they can be any gender they want to be. Then help them find their safe place.

[call_me_ishmael]

No, my approach would be using other forms of discipline. There are plenty of them. Sorry, there is nothing cool, manly, or responsible about using size and strength to discipline a child. What lesson does that teach them? That's beating people and using their size/strength over them is right? And what happens when a young man tries to apply the same concepts they learned from their folks to a young woman?

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post? Your lack of intelligence is showing.

[Vincenzo]

No, my approach would be using other forms of discipline. There are plenty of them. Sorry, there is nothing cool, manly, or responsible about using size and strength to discipline a child. What lesson does that teach them? That's beating people and using their size/strength over them is right? And what happens when a young man tries to apply the same concepts they learned from their folks to a young woman?

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post? Your lack of intelligence is showing.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with a lack of intelligence. Rather, more to do with the difficulty with the subject of disciplining.
Family matters often escalate which can end up in regretful endings.

[call_me_ishmael]

I would just ask this question: When a situation arises that results in violence, have you ever exited the situation with more respect for the other person as a whole? I know that I have not. Respect is key IMO.