Defensive Backs

[mraynrand]

Wilk is a starter. Can't wait to see Pettine throw out the "Maniac" package, a package in which Wilk lines up at DE across from the RT, Clark and Daniels line up inside, Perry lines up with his hand down at the other DE spot and the Claymakers lines up all over the place alongside 6 DBs.

This is not a baseless assertion, but instead, the words written on the subway walls by the prophets: Jimmy G and A-Rod are gonna light up the league in 2018.

Jordy had a nice career in the Green and Gold and he was the consummate pro, but while not yet over -the-hill, he's past his prime. Can't run anymore, and usually when a receiver can't run anymore, he falls into the abyss of oblivion. Yes, the Packers now have a large wormhole at the receiver position, but re-sign Janis and draft Ridley and the wormhole would dissolve into the abyss of oblivion.

Kizer? Marginal? I'll have what you're smoking. Dude's a Hundley-clone, and Hundley is an abomination. The Packers would be better off with the Champion of the Downtrodden, Kap.

In short, chill. Gutekunst is the antithesis of Ted Thompson.

This could all be true, but it's all on paper right now. Last year Jordy and Butte were on the same page before the injury to the tune of two TDs/game. Chucky seems to think Jordy is more than Vicious at this point. And sometimes bringing the band back together (Poutine and Bruce Wilkerson) doesn't work out so well - sometimes you end up in Joliet.

[texaspackerbacker]

Interesting. The guy who was all in for Ted is shitting on Gutekunst while arguably the jury is still out on him, and the biggest hater of Ted (except maybe for me) is loving everything about Gutekunst when he hasn't really done much yet in net effect. If we had gotten Fuller, it would have tipped the scales in his favor, but it looks like we didn't.

[mraynrand]

Interesting. The guy who was all in for Ted is shitting on Gutekunst

who's all in for Ted? Who is shitting on Gutekunst Maximus? Who is this mystery poster?

[pbmax]

Interesting. The guy who was all in for Ted is shitting on Gutekunst while arguably the jury is still out on him, and the biggest hater of Ted (except maybe for me) is loving everything about Gutekunst when he hasn't really done much yet in net effect. If we had gotten Fuller, it would have tipped the scales in his favor, but it looks like we didn't.

Fuller would have been a clear upgrade over Randall straight up, plus the two deals probably(?) improve the backup QB at the cost of some money. And I think that money is well spent if Fuller can be a full time outside corner. Randall was best at the slot but there are more of those guys around.

Wilkerson will be a nice addition if he goes Back to the Future, gets a reliable clock radio and can stay out of the supper club bar for a VERY reasonable one year, no extended risk contact. But if he doesn't snap back to form, they are hiring a part time malcontent who adds little the best position group of the D all because he knows Mike Pettine. Not much risk, but possibly no reward.

No one I am aware of has a problem with those bets.

What is undecided is trading Graham for Nelson actually does anything for the offense.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Interesting. The guy who was all in for Ted is shitting on Gutekunst while arguably the jury is still out on him, and the biggest hater of Ted (except maybe for me) is loving everything about Gutekunst when he hasn't really done much yet in net effect. If we had gotten Fuller, it would have tipped the scales in his favor, but it looks like we didn't.

To quote Tex, "Hahahaha."

Something like 12 years ago today most of us here were chatting at this infamous cyberspace called JSO. Thompson was hibernating. I called for Thompson's head to be erected on a spike. Alotta posters were like, give Ted time and give Ted space and give Ted a chance. Don't say I didn't warn y'all about the dangers of Polar Bearism.

In less than 4 months at the helm, Gutekunst has already pulled off a trade and signed a couple of marquee free agents. That's an indication that Gutekunst is utilizing Belichickism. Fuller in the Green and Gold would be nice, but it was a long shot anyway. Can't win all your hands, but it's better to try and fail than hibernate and hibernate some more.

[woodbuck27]

EJ GAINES HAS TO BE THE TARGET

https://overthecap.com/player/ej-gaines/3127/

The Cardinals will host free agent CB E.J. Gaines on Saturday.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9619/ej-gaines

[beveaux1]

Going into this free agency period, we had roughly 19 mil in cap room. Our brass knew we were going to cut Nelson leaving us with around 29 mil in cap room. They had to know that they had an offer for Wilkerson of 5 mil and that we were the top team on his board because he visited here first. If he accepts, we have 24 mil in cap space that could be reduced to 21 if incentives are met.

We have one good CB on the roster with a defense that has been one of the worst against the pass since Shields left. We have one average at best TE on the roster but that has not really stopped our offense historically. This free agent class had almost no edge rushers of any consequence, but was loaded with good to excellent DBs including a safety from our team. It also goes without saying that there were few TEs, but again, that is normal among free agent classes.

With so little cap space, we could get one major free agent and two low cost free agents. The glaring need on this team is a number one CB. That is NOT a want, it’s a need. The number 2 need on this team is someone to get to the passer. Maybe we filled that with Wilkerson but he’s three years removed from an impact season. A want for this team is a TE as is a WR with speed. We spent the major free agent portion of our cap on a TE. That, to me, is a major disappointment.

We now have 11 to 14 million in cap space with our two major needs unfulfilled and a QB that needs to be paid. We also still have a good safety that will have to be replaced or re-signed. The main moves that we can make are to cut Cobb or cut Matthews. I don’t see anyone left in free agency that we could reasonably replace them with, which makes both of those moves look especially foolish.

What we have left is the draft and a smattering of average to below average free agents. This hasn’t been a successful offseason. This has been an active offseason, but it seems like wasted motion. Putting an offer in for Fuller when Chicago had already announced they would match any offer on him and making the offer extremely reasonable kind of looks desperate on our part.

We came home from free agency with one big toy and another possibly useful game piece. Let’s hope they weren’t garage sale throwaways.

[mraynrand]

^^^ You make a lot of sense.

[pbmax]

They didn't quite have $19 mil. Had about $16 if you take out the rookie money.

Unless MW's incentives are judged unlikely to be earned, that full $8 mil needs to count against the cap now.

With any big FA signing (Graham or Butler or Johnson), they needed to do something with vets (extend Jordy or Clay).

With Fuller (or any mid-sized DB signing) they needed to do something larger with their vets (that is why he was released).

I like Wilkerson for that money. He can help in pass rush but its a bet that MW was simply miscast in subsequent Jet's defenses with Todd Bowles.

I agree completely that Graham is both a risk (with some upside) and a bit lateral with Nelson leaving.

And I agree they are now hamstrung by both money and the remaining players to find another CB. Which is why Kizer for Randall seems dumber today that a week ago.

[mraynrand]

Which is why Kizer for Randall seems dumber today that a week ago.

The only way it could be less dumb is if they had a chance to get back a defensive back. Say by trading for a draft pick or something. they needed to drop Randall and try and get something for him. Maybe they got a backup QB, so now they don't have to go out and get that piece too. Your mock defensive back draft may not be too far from reality. I could see them pick 4 (or more) defensive backs and hope to get two or three starters, much like the 1981 49ers. Is Ray Rhodes available as position coach?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

^^^ You make a lot of sense.

How so? Pretty sure Beveaux said that the Packers need to replace or re-sign a good safety. Who?

Burnett was never a good safety. Average at best. Injury-prone. Let him go.

[mraynrand]

How so? Pretty sure Beveaux said that the Packers need to replace or re-sign a good safety. Who?

Burnett was never a good safety. Average at best. Injury-prone. Let him go.

Mostly that the Packers so far haven't really improved much in the off season, even on paper. You have to imagine most of the pieces falling into place perfectly. They have significant losses that haven't really been addressed. And they've eaten up cap space so wiggle room is reduced. As always, I hope their moves all pan out, but right now it requires more than just a little wishful thinking, especially for Bruce Wilkerson being effective on the D-line and Kizer as backup QB.

[The Shadow]

Fuller would have been a clear upgrade over Randall straight up, plus the two deals probably(?) improve the backup QB at the cost of some money. And I think that money is well spent if Fuller can be a full time outside corner. Randall was best at the slot but there are more of those guys around.

Wilkerson will be a nice addition if he goes Back to the Future, gets a reliable clock radio and can stay out of the supper club bar for a VERY reasonable one year, no extended risk contact. But if he doesn't snap back to form, they are hiring a part time malcontent who adds little the best position group of the D all because he knows Mike Pettine. Not much risk, but possibly no reward.

No one I am aware of has a problem with those bets.

What is undecided is trading Graham for Nelson actually does anything for the offense.

I would rather have Nelson.

[beveaux1]

They didn't quite have $19 mil. Had about $16 if you take out the rookie money.

Unless MW's incentives are judged unlikely to be earned, that full $8 mil needs to count against the cap now.

With any big FA signing (Graham or Butler or Johnson), they needed to do something with vets (extend Jordy or Clay).

With Fuller (or any mid-sized DB signing) they needed to do something larger with their vets (that is why he was released).

I like Wilkerson for that money. He can help in pass rush but its a bet that MW was simply miscast in subsequent Jet's defenses with Todd Bowles.

I agree completely that Graham is both a risk (with some upside) and a bit lateral with Nelson leaving.

And I agree they are now hamstrung by both money and the remaining players to find another CB. Which is why Kizer for Randall seems dumber today that a week ago.

Not a particularly good offseason so far. New GM appears to have made some tactical mistakes and probably hopes to make up for it in the draft. The problem is that we knew we couldn't get edge rushers in free agency and had to hope to pick up one in the draft.

Unfortunately, we didn't pick up a stud CB in free agency and lost at least an average CB with potential in a trade for a backup. That means, even if we get House and Williams (or another stop-gap), our CBs are prohibitively worse than last year.

That makes CB a priority in the draft. With about a 50% chance of getting a good player in the first round and a 35% chance of getting a good player in the 2nd round, we have to hope that Biegel, Fackrell, Waters, or Hawkins develop into that stud next year.

This should have been the year they targeted a number 1 CB in free agency, no matter the cost. We didn't and got sidetracked with a TE. Oh well, it's our GM's rookie year.

[pbmax]

[/B]

I would rather have Nelson.

I would too. Tight Ends have never dominated this offense with McCarthy. Holmgren and Sherman made TEs a pretty vital cog. Holmgren did have better talent at the position.

On the plus side, it remains to be seen if a WR steps up at #3 to make the team miss Nelson less than you may expect. He was no longer a regular deep threat and worked a lot of short routes. You can do those with a lot of people, including Montgomery. Plus Davis and Janis could be deep threats, even if its unlikely at this point.

Thinking about the depth chart at WR now, I bet its Geronimo as the 3rd WR. Possession guy who Rodgers trusts. I could see it working.