Preparing the Packers for the 2020 Season.

[bobblehead]

BLAKE MARTINEZ; listened to a very interesting interview at end of year. Almost seemed like an exit interview. Clearly he wants to stay in Green Bay. He thanked everybody, and noted how much he loves Lambeau and the invironment ant the fans.

GOT ME THINKING...............HOW MUCH WOULD WE PAY THE GUY AND BE HAPPY ????????????

He's about the only ILB who makes a loot of tackles and plays. But I don't think GB can really pay him his value as measured in free agency.

I'd embrace signing him for 6MIL/Year. My gut tells me that's about what GB wants, and he's about to get 8 to 10, and he knows her his agent he's played his last game as a Packer.



P.S. ANYBODY think there could be a ray of hope Rashan Gary could play ILB ?

If Rashan develops footballs instincts maybe. I see his career shaping out as a 3rd down pass rush specialist and that is about all. That has value if he gets really good at it.

I think blake at $5 million is about it, but I could stomach 6. Someone will pay him more though.

[bobblehead]

I just don't get Gary's game.

Jamal Reynolds was too small, too small framed, to get by anyone and his speed was not all that impressive around the edge. He was reduced to ducking around a corner on tackles.

KGB had similar speed, perhaps better AND he could leverage around the tackle with good bend or lean. It was all he could do, but he did it pretty well. He had no bull rush to speak of.

Gary doesn't get around a corner like KGB but his speed is WAY better. Its Matthews like. But when he gets close to finishing, he just doesn't get there. His bull rush is OK too. He needs a finishing move AND a counter to speed to the inside.

My worry is that I have never seen someone develop the finishing move as a pro. Usually, its getting to that point that is the problem.

Cameron Wake and James Harrison. Wake's arm swat karate move is incredible. Harrison was a practice squad guy who developed an arsenal.

[bobblehead]

And it could be that his measurable s are just far superior to his play and they are going to be sucker GM's that fall for what. I don't understand why so many just ignore his college production; this year should be no surprise to anybody who followed Big Ten Football . I am being lazy here; and I don't feel like looking the hippy up but it would not surprise me at all if Winnovich was the better Rookie OLB this year. He produced more in college. Gary's measurable s are crazy insane and coaches think they can coach that up. But history is against us. . But he disappointed as a Wolverine and Packer so far. . Everybody thinks they can make a star out of the freak athletes.

Just sux that we could have went so many ways with that pick that coudl have really inpacted out future at a bunch of positions on need. We won't see a number 12 pick for a long time now. What a great opportunity

Winovich was a player this year. I can't quote stats, but I watched about 5 games this year and I noticed him. I watched 18 packer games and noticed Gary 2x.

[Radagast]

If Rashan develops footballs instincts maybe. I see his career shaping out as a 3rd down pass rush specialist and that is about all. That has value if he gets really good at it.

I think blake at $5 million is about it, but I could stomach 6. Someone will pay him more though.

Do you think Rashan Gary might have any trade value? Could GB recover even a small bit of the resources wasted on this 1st round draft bust?

[Patler]

I can say that a few English classes would do you no harm. It's easy to see that a high wage earner your not. You can't seen to form a sentence correctly, your rhetoric is random, and I can't remember the last time that you focused on a threads subject, but instead you feel the need to engage others in some personal attack contest.

Additionally, I've been an informed fan for longer than you've been alive. So yes I do know a bit about the different aspects of the game/business.I actually saw the 60's Packers play live on Sundays. I've seen every Super Bowl game ever played. I saw Johnny Unitas play for the Baltimore Colts, the 85 Bears, and even when OJ Simpson was just a RB for Buffalo. Yes I can see when a team needs WRs or a QB or CBs. I can distinguish between a good O-Line and a poor one. I also know that others also have opinions and (even if they are wrong) they too deserve to be heard as well

Enjoy your day off, that job at the dump is only a day away.

Re: First Paragraph - Complaining about about the literary compositions of others while having routine errors in your own compositions makes you look a little foolish/pompous.

Re: Second Paragraph - None of that makes you very unique on this board. In fact, if those are your best qualifications, you are well behind many who contribute here.

Re: Your last sentence - Civility goes a long way.

[Bretsky]

Do you think Rashan Gary might have any trade value? Could GB recover even a small bit of the resources wasted on this 1st round draft bust?

Should we take volunteers for who wants to make the phone calls ?

[Patler]

I think I have higher opinions of King and Martinez than many on here do. I'm not saying they are All Pros, but I think they are valuable contributors. My opinion of Alexander probably is a bit lower than many others' opinions of him. I think he is good, but no where near a true shutdown guy. I think King and Alexander are not that much separated in over all "value" to the defense.

A defense can always use a tackling machine. Martinez is that.

Basically, the defense has no impact players, except in pass rush. The Smiths come across as somewhat one-dimensional. They make plays behind the Los, but not at it or beyond. No one makes an impact in coverage; they are just OK. Collectively they make little impact in interceptions, none in forced fumbles. There is no stud against the run.

Just a lot of "OK" players.

[Patler]

I'm not ready to give up on Gary, yet.

[Deputy Nutz]

Do you think Rashan Gary might have any trade value? Could GB recover even a small bit of the resources wasted on this 1st round draft bust?

I will take my chances replying to you and this post. Trading guys after their rookie year is rare, besides right now you could maybe trade him for a day 3 pick in the draft and his potential still outpaces that of a late round draft pick. The Gary pick didn't make sense at the time, it still doesn't. He was a top 5 athlete in the 2019 draft but huge question marks after his production at Michigan and interviews at the Combine. If you look at the pick inside a vacuum it's a risk vs high reward if he pays off, but it didn't happen in a vacuum. The Packers signed two high profile edge rushers that received the majority of the snaps while Rashan Gary had to take limited snaps. He was also recovering from off season shoulder injury. If he had the snaps some of the other edge rushers had in this draft and if he was completely healthy I think on just his athleticism he could have gotten 6 or 7 sacks this season, and our outlook would be vastly different.

Were there better prospects in the 2019 draft? Possibly. I just recognized how much overall athletic ability and talent Gary actually has compared some of the other talent at the Edge position. Here was draft break down of the group last year.

Edge Rushers: Whether this is a defensive end or a a rush OLB I will rank them here. Top heavy group, where talent goes down hill quickly after the top few guys.

Tier 1
1. Nick Bosa DE Ohio St - Bosa is a down rusher and I wouldn't want to see a team use him any other way. He has a great explosion off the snap and wins most of the battles he has because of how fast he gets out of his stance. He has several different rush moves that he combine to also rush the passer and give offensive tackles fits. Quick change of direction helps him play the run just as well.

2. Clelin Ferrell DE/OLB Clemson - Young player coming into this draft and physically hasn't fully developed, but he is a student of the game and uses great and violent hands. Ran a below average 40 at his Pro Day (4.8) which I think has him falling in the first round by the draft experts. I think he has good change of direction, decent feet and a good motor. He needs to add strength to his lower body.

3. Brian Burns OLB Florida St - He has to play OLB at the next level, he doesn't have the frame to play DE in the NFL as an every down player. At this point I would characterize him as a speed rusher with the potential to develop other aspects of his game. He has a tremendous motor and is a high energy kid.

4. Josh Allen OLB Kentucky - Only true outside linebacker in this group. Has a chiseled physique and with a great combine he is now rated as a top 5 player. He can rush the passer, play the run, and drop in to coverage. My biggest question with him are his instincts and whether or not he plays just on his athleticism or does he watch film to help his recognition skills? To me he is still sort of a project with a really high ceiling and no basement.

Tier 2
5. Montez Sweat DE Mississippi St - Tall defensive end that absolutely crushed the combine with a very rare combination of size and speed. I didn't see the athleticism translate on film all the time. He is what I call a peeker. He needs to see whats going on in the backfield to gain knowledge instead of reading the tackles block. That recognition takes time, and by the time he realizes what is happening the offensive tackle has engulfed him. He doesn't have much for secondary pass rush moves. He runs very stiff and looks awkward on film when he is in chase mode.

6. Rashan Gary DE Michigan - Gary has all the physical traits you look for in a defensive end and then more. His biggest question mark during the draft process is his lack of production on film. He might have been playing out of position as a DT, but for the number 1 rated high school player you wouldn't think it would slow his production that much. His motor has serious question marks, but his ability and potential are sky high.

7. Chase Winovich DE/OLB Michigan - Tweener. Teams will have to find out if he can play in space or if he will best be suited as an undersized defensive end. High motor kid that works extremely hard at playing the game of football. Great combine shot him up the draft boards, which in a way confirmed that he just doesn't get by on his motor that there is a good athlete under all that hair.

Tier 3
8. Jaylon Ferguson DE/OLB Louisiana Tech - He is the all time leader in sacks at the NCAA level. He had 26 tackles for a loss last season, but when he went against offensive tackles at the senior bowl his pass rush was nullified. He has the size to play as a down end in the NFL. Needs to play with better pad level and improve his counter attack.

9.Oshane Ximines OLB/DE Old Dominion - Small school kid which brings forth a lot of questions about how he can match up against NFL caliber talent. He has the size you are looking for but he had a less than ideal combine that raised question about his athleticism. So the small school competition and the athleticism are issues that teams are going to struggle with. On film he does a decent job of rushing the passer with several pass rushing moves. He doesn't rely on just one or two moves. He has quality hands and is agile enough with his feet. The negative on film is that he needs to anchor better against the run and not get engulfed by offensive linemen.

10. LJ Collier DE Texas Christian - Great anchor and has some of the best violent hands in the draft. He has exceptionally long arms and hand size considering his height. Has great recognition skills pre snap and can gain an edge rushing the passer. I would like to see him get off the snap quicker and play with better bend in the lower body.

Others: Austin Bryant Clemson, Charles Omenthihu Texas, D'Andre Walker Georgia, Christian Miller Alabama.

[Radagast]

D Nutz, your post is interesting. No arguments with your opinions, but I would like to know where you got the player evaluations from? Additionally, as GB did address the need at edge rusher with FAs, a WR or ILB could have been a better use of the fairly good 1st round 2019 Draft pick.

This 2020 NFL DRAFT will see GB pick at likely the 30th spot. I continue to hear that good WRs will be available. IMO, if a real deep threat WR is still on the board for the Packers, then they should take him. Failing that, if an Offensive Tackle is still on the board that won't just polish the bench, then go with him.

[pbmax]

If Rashan develops footballs instincts maybe. I see his career shaping out as a 3rd down pass rush specialist and that is about all. That has value if he gets really good at it.

I think blake at $5 million is about it, but I could stomach 6. Someone will pay him more though.

I think even if all teams think his tackle numbers are partially fraudulent, he is getting more than that somewhere.

[pbmax]

Cameron Wake and James Harrison. Wake's arm swat karate move is incredible. Harrison was a practice squad guy who developed an arsenal.

Harrison I'll give you as a developmental guy but was it the finishing move he developed? Or did he just get bigger and stronger?

Wake's swat is what gives him separation but I wouldn't say its a finishing move.

But perhaps Gary needs ANY move and some more strength and then problem solved. He just never seems to get to the QB quickly. Its all rounded off corners, like a bad route by a receiver.

[Deputy Nutz]

D Nutz, your post is interesting. No arguments with your opinions, but I would like to know where you got the player evaluations from? Additionally, as GB did address the need at edge rusher with FAs, a WR or ILB could have been a better use of the fairly good 1st round 2019 Draft pick.

This 2020 NFL DRAFT will see GB pick at likely the 30th spot. I continue to hear that good WRs will be available. IMO, if a real deep threat WR is still on the board for the Packers, then they should take him. Failing that, if an Offensive Tackle is still on the board that won't just polish the bench, then go with him.

I watched film and and created the tiers myself. The draft is based on the value of player based on the organizations big board balanced on the needs of the organization.

Obviously there were receivers and tackles of considerable value at the 12th selection in last year's draft. Looking at how the draft played out teams either didn't have receiver valued as high or they didn't want to be the first team to draft out of the top tier which was stacked. There were some questions about Metcalf, similar to Gary about his college production. Metcalf was the top rated receiver on many draft boards for the media talking heads.

[RashanGary]

He just never seems to get to the QB quickly. Its all rounded off corners, like a bad route by a receiver.

His pass rush is perplexing. Runs the long way around a chipping tight end and then the next play runs square into a 330 pound OT.

It's really hard for me to wrap my mind around what he's trying to do.

It's like he hes spacially retarded. All my kids by the age of 6 could comprehend taking the short route or that when they were the bigger kid they could push through a smaller one. So to see a grown adult not understand a basic spacial concept like distance or a basic physical concept like strength through a smaller player. It's really hard for me to understand how it's possible to be so stupid .

[RashanGary]

Garys spacial sense is less than a normal 6 year old. I'm convinced he's clinically retarded. And I know that sounds insensitive and cruel, but it's just a fact. Rashan Gary has the spatial sense of a 5 year old.