2020 NFL DRAFT DEFENSIVE LINE TIERS

[pbmax]

The bottom line is there are teams like the Niners, Titans, Seahawks Ravens that are “run first teams”

So you either get a guy or two that can hold up and have the ability to be versatile scheme wise or pray you don’t face them in the playoffs.

Once again for a franchise to draft defense first for ten years and break the bank on free agent acquisitions this is completely unacceptable. It has just become the same old worn out story over and over again.

The Tape is UGLY!!!!

Somehow don't recall same problems with Seahawks run game. Its not a defend a run first offense problem. The Niners are a complete team that can shut down your scoring for long stretches and then run against you even when you expect it and then pass well enough to keep you honest.

Packers had three TOs in 49ers playoff game and they still played better than the regular season game (reg season was -23 EP, playoff was -12). First game they were their normal bad against the run (5.1 surrendered) and they were burned by Kittle. Second game they were more concerned about Kittle and gave up 285 rush yards at a 6.8 ypc clip that was so bad that surrender doesn't do it justice.

They abused the part of the D that the Packers tend not to spend resources on, interior D, ILB and safety.

And Nutz is right, you can't just stick in a wide body to occupy 2 gaps because the Niners will throw on you and that guy can't pass rush. Niners gashed the Nitro/moneybacker D.

A run stuffer helps only when the offense obliges you and the Niners try not to do that. Packers need total upgrades. To a degree, an actual run stuffer would be an improvement over Lancaster. But that isn't what you want out of the first or second round.

[GB-Brandon]

Somehow don't recall same problems with Seahawks run game. Its not a defend a run first offense problem. The Niners are a complete team that can shut down your scoring for long stretches and then run against you even when you expect it and then pass well enough to keep you honest.

Packers had three TOs in 49ers playoff game and they still played better than the regular season game (reg season was -23 EP, playoff was -12). First game they were their normal bad against the run (5.1 surrendered) and they were burned by Kittle. Second game they were more concerned about Kittle and gave up 285 rush yards at a 6.8 ypc clip that was so bad that surrender doesn't do it justice.

They abused the part of the D that the Packers tend not to spend resources on, interior D, ILB and safety.

And Nutz is right, you can't just stick in a wide body to occupy 2 gaps because the Niners will throw on you and that guy can't pass rush. Niners gashed the Nitro/moneybacker D.

A run stuffer helps only when the offense obliges you and the Niners try not to do that. Packers need total upgrades. To a degree, an actual run stuffer would be an improvement over Lancaster. But that isn't what you want out of the first or second round.

First of all we played a Seahawks team that was devastated by injuries. There offensive line had 3 or 4 starters out. They brought Lynch out of retirement because there top 3 RB’s were hurt. With all of that our defense looked slow and gassed and almost gave the game away. If our offense doesn’t get that first down the Seahawks probably win with the way our defense played in the second half. I would not call that game a massive defensive victory. So basically OUR OFFENSE was our defense late in that game. Belichick squeezes the clock all the time with his offense and uses it as a form of defense.

Also. Somehow the Seahawks were able to somewhat contain the Niners run game. They even beat the niners and almost beat them a second time. Guess how they did it? Seahawks were working with “Less Talent” too.

4-3 Base and big bodied run pluggers. This isn’t rocket science.

The Niners threw the ball 8 times so I don’t know what your referring too as far as “not Having pass rush”. We couldn’t even get them into a passing situation. The running lanes were so huge that we could of probably made it through some of them. We couldn’t do anything. We couldn’t set the edge. Guys were getting pushed around an moved all over the field like rag dolls. DB’s were put into situations that weren’t good. It was TOTAL DOMiNATIOM in every sense. Some of this is on Pettine and some of it is on the guys we have on the front 7. The bottom line is I’m sick of it. I’m sick of this wasted opportunity to follow some “Flawed Vision” that was never gonna work. It’s a PIPE DREAM and always has been. To invest another “top pick” on some guy ISN’T GONNA FiX IT.

The two players I recommend in the 2-3 round give us a better shot then “Team Northwestern” . They both have “High Grades” as run defenders with room to grow aa pass rushers. The last thing we need to do is continue this “Fairy Tale Approach” of this ten year failed saga and waste another top pick. You have high dollar free agents and top draft picks all over that defense so make it Fucken Work!!!

It’s just Ridiculous.

[GB-Brandon]

2011 Green Bay Packers Statistics & Players
Record: 15-1-0, 1st in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike McCarthy (15-1-0)
Points For: 560 (35.0/g) 1st of 32.
Points Against: 359 (22.4/g) 19th of 32.
Expected W-L: 11.9-4.1.
Playoffs: Lost Divisional Round 20-37 vs.
Offensive Coordinator: Joe Philbin.
Defensive Coordinator: Dom Capers

Compare to

2019 Green Bay Packers Statistics & Players
Record: 13-3-0, 1st in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Matt LaFleur (13-3-0)
Points For: 376 (23.5/g) 15th of 32.
Points Against: 313 (19.6/g) 9th of 32.
Expected W-L: 9.7-6.3.
Playoffs: Won Divisional Round 28-23 vs. ...
Offensive Coordinator: Nathaniel Hackett.
Defensive Coordinator: Mike Pettine.

Not just these stats, but overall your idea of offensive over defense is flawed. A good defense will keep you in games when your offense sputters. You simply can't have one without the other and the 2011 season demonstrated this. If the Packers are to make it back to the Super Bowl and win it they can't simply ignore the defensive issues. Gute is doing his best to remodel the defense, and at the same time add to the offense. I agree that the Packers need a to draft at least one receiver that can compete in 2019 and the Packers are lucky because this draft is loaded at receiver. It is why the round or exact pick doesn't matter. They could easily find a receiver in round three that could put up the same numbers as a receiver in round 1.

Lets remember the NFC Championship game fell on the shoulders of the defense, but the offense was absolutely terrible for the first 25 minutes of the game with lost yardage, turn overs, and consecutive 3 and outs. The defense took it on the chin, but the offense was dominated up front when they tried to pass. The offense didn't get going until adjustments were made in the running game.

I’ll take 15-1 and home field advantage every time. The odds are more in our favor.

As far as the defense I’m done. Every year it’s the same damn thing and the “defense, defense, defense”. It’s like the movie “Ground Hog Day”.

Go model what the Chiefs are doing with putting massive weapons around there Elite QB and have a defense that can compete.

That should be the formula and the vision.

[GB-Brandon]

You can’t have it BOTH WAYS!!!

If all the our premium pick guys were “the best player available”, “High Character”, “Real Smart” etc etc and picked early in the draft along with millions spent on high priced FA’s then “Show Me The Baby”. I’m tired of
People telling me about the baby.

Talent or Coaching/Scheme?

Its gotta be one or another. So either the Packers are the worst team ever drafting defensive players or Mike Pettine is a Total Fraud.

I believe it’s both.

[GB-Brandon]

To me Pettine is a guy that makes constant excuses for his failures saying he needs more talent or this or that. He is a “walking excuse” if you’ve followed him. He always seems to be bandstanding to get this guy or that guy for his “Smoke and Mirror Scheme” that doesn’t work unless you have close to elite talent at every position.

He should of been fired.

[run pMc]

GB got them into passing situations, SF just ran the ball anyway.

That entire game can be summed up on SF's first scoring play. 3rd and 8 from GB's 36. The confidence and audacity to run a draw. Untouched for a TD.

SEA didn't have much of a running game if you ignore Russell Wilson. D was gassed from chasing him all over "like a chicken in a field".

They could certainly bring in a big 340 pounder to two-gap, but what do you do then -- play Clark at 3T? Your 340 pounder won't give you much pass rush or gap penetration, which is what Pettine likes. I 100% agree that Lancaster and Lowry (and the Smiths) got washed out of gaps, and Blake got caught on blocks trying to sift through the trash vs. SF.

I think they've spent a lot of high draft capital on defense, and I'd like to see some investment in the offense.
Suggesting that drafting any defensive players is a waste because the defense is terrible is kind of a contradiction. You draft to improve the talent and production.
And let's be real -- they wouldn't have been in the playoffs without the investments they have made on defense, whether FA (Smiths, Amos) and draft (Clark, Alexander, Savage).

[pbmax]

First of all we played a Seahawks team that was devastated by injuries. There offensive line had 3 or 4 starters out. They brought Lynch out of retirement because there top 3 RB’s were hurt. With all of that our defense looked slow and gassed and almost gave the game away. If our offense doesn’t get that first down the Seahawks probably win with the way our defense played in the second half. I would not call that game a massive defensive victory. So basically OUR OFFENSE was our defense late in that game. Belichick squeezes the clock all the time with his offense and uses it as a form of defense.

Also. Somehow the Seahawks were able to somewhat contain the Niners run game. They even beat the niners and almost beat them a second time. Guess how they did it? Seahawks were working with “Less Talent” too.

4-3 Base and big bodied run pluggers. This isn’t rocket science.

The Niners threw the ball 8 times so I don’t know what your referring too as far as “not Having pass rush”. We couldn’t even get them into a passing situation. The running lanes were so huge that we could of probably made it through some of them. We couldn’t do anything. We couldn’t set the edge. Guys were getting pushed around an moved all over the field like rag dolls. DB’s were put into situations that weren’t good. It was TOTAL DOMiNATIOM in every sense. Some of this is on Pettine and some of it is on the guys we have on the front 7. The bottom line is I’m sick of it. I’m sick of this wasted opportunity to follow some “Flawed Vision” that was never gonna work. It’s a PIPE DREAM and always has been. To invest another “top pick” on some guy ISN’T GONNA FiX IT.

The two players I recommend in the 2-3 round give us a better shot then “Team Northwestern” . They both have “High Grades” as run defenders with room to grow aa pass rushers. The last thing we need to do is continue this “Fairy Tale Approach” of this ten year failed saga and waste another top pick. You have high dollar free agents and top draft picks all over that defense so make it Fucken Work!!!

It’s just Ridiculous.

Seahawks have two very good backers and good speed all along their defense. That's how they deal with the 49ers run/pass attack. Even so, the 49ers ran for 5 ypc (24-128) as well against the Seachickens at the end of the season. So much for 4-3 big bodied base being the answer as that was the same as the Packers yielded in the first 49er game.

3 TO really hampered the Packers in the playoff game so the offense was not available to help. As such there was even less pressure for the 49ers to throw.

I am not arguing about the need to invest significant resources to improve the D. Despite all the effort in drafting and mistakes, they still need help in the middle of that D. But I am agreeing with the earlier point that run-stoppers aren't the answer. Big bodies with speed and agility would be better.

If your LOS players on D can't get to the QB but can stop the run, the 49ers will just abuse you with Kittle or the backs on passes. You can't be one dimensional against that offense until you get the edge with a lead.

Nutz also brought up a good point about the Smith Bros. Preston was OK but noting special. He didn't even hold the edge well. But Zadarius had a terrible game and was frequently out of position. I expect teams to try to take advantage of him more this season after seeing that tape. He behaved as if all he wanted to do was rush the passer.

[pbmax]

Zach Kruse @zachkruse2
#Packers have made 7 picks in the first or second round over the last three drafts.
Average RAS: 9.39.
They've preferred elite athletes throughout the draft recently, but they only like elite athletes early.

Zach Kruse@zachkruse2
For #Packers fans who want a defensive lineman early:
The only DL likely to go in the first two rounds with a RAS over 8.0 is Justin Madubuike.

[GB-Brandon]

My point is being distorted. I was simply replying to being asked “If I know How Football Works”?

I think I have laid out clearly that “I DO”

This discussion has literally gone on for the better part of 10 years and the insanity of the discussion amazes me.

I never said to put a 340 pounder in there. I said a “run plugger”. A guy like Quinton Jefferson of the Seahawks would of been perfect. Both the players i like at DL in the draft are pretty good athletes and have potential as being able to pass rush. If you don’t think they wouldn’t be an improvement over “Team Northwestern then I can’t help ya. I don’t see the need to spend a 1st round pick on a DT. I’m not sure what you get in round 1 is much better then you get in round 3 considering are draft position.

I stand behind my main point that right now the most important thing is to re-load the offense: I believe it’s our best chance. I still believe Rodgers can sling it with the right guys around him and thrive. If people disagree then that is fine.

We’ve been throwing late round picks too the offense for years. I really don’t see the harm of doing it to the defense for a year. It feels like trying to take heroin away from a heroin addict. We need to do something different and I think Gute understand this. Pettine is supposed to be some 4-3/3-4 guru and has “all this talent”. Go figure it out.

[GB-Brandon]

Seahawks have two very good backers and good speed all along their defense. That's how they deal with the 49ers run/pass attack. Even so, the 49ers ran for 5 ypc (24-128) as well against the Seachickens at the end of the season. So much for 4-3 big bodied base being the answer as that was the same as the Packers yielded in the first 49er game.

3 TO really hampered the Packers in the playoff game so the offense was not available to help. As such there was even less pressure for the 49ers to throw.

I am not arguing about the need to invest significant resources to improve the D. Despite all the effort in drafting and mistakes, they still need help in the middle of that D. But I am agreeing with the earlier point that run-stoppers aren't the answer. Big bodies with speed and agility would be better.

If your LOS players on D can't get to the QB but can stop the run, the 49ers will just abuse you with Kittle or the backs on passes. You can't be one dimensional against that offense until you get the edge with a lead.

Nutz also brought up a good point about the Smith Bros. Preston was OK but noting special. He didn't even hold the edge well. But Zadarius had a terrible game and was frequently out of position. I expect teams to try to take advantage of him more this season after seeing that tape. He behaved as if all he wanted to do was rush the passer.

Once again Pettine didn’t have his defense prepared on a huge stage and he was given a pass so basically we’re back to having very little accountability. Instead some people want to reward him with another premium pick. It’s laughable.

People talk about Lombardi all the time and none of this shit is run like Lombardi would run it. It’s a facade.

[GB-Brandon]

The bottom line is “This Ship Has Sailed Off” with the passing on Jeffery Simmons due to a “Combine Infatuation” with Rashan Gary. The Corvette with no Engine.

“Don’t hate the Player. Hate the Game.”

[pbmax]

Once again Pettine didn’t have his defense prepared on a huge stage and he was given a pass so basically we’re back to having very little accountability. Instead some people want to reward him with another premium pick. It’s laughable.

People talk about Lombardi all the time and none of this shit is run like Lombardi would run it. It’s a facade.

I have questions about Pettine too, but I think the current talent on the defense cannot be monsters versus the run and pass in the middle of the field. They have to choose. If it was a baseball platoon, it would work better.

As it is, with Goodson out there and a 3 man line they ar ultra vulnerable to the pass. Or some Nitro S/ILB (with possible exception for Raven Green) with Clark and Smith/Gary at the interior, they are vulnerable to the run. Even still they make it work out about average for most of the season by simply choosing their option by down and distance.

But when Petttine tried to guard against both early in the playoff game, he hedged with a Nitro safety and a 3 man DL. Lancaster and Lowry couldn't get it done and whoever the safety was at ILB just disappeared. Z Smith had a horrid game and P Smith was mostly invisible. Even with help, you can't win with performances like that. Especially when the offense is shooting itself in the foot.

[GB-Brandon]

I have questions about Pettine too, but I think the current talent on the defense cannot be monsters versus the run and pass in the middle of the field. They have to choose. If it was a baseball platoon, it would work better.

As it is, with Goodson out there and a 3 man line they ar ultra vulnerable to the pass. Or some Nitro S/ILB (with possible exception for Raven Green) with Clark and Smith/Gary at the interior, they are vulnerable to the run. Even still they make it work out about average for most of the season by simply choosing their option by down and distance.

But when Petttine tried to guard against both early in the playoff game, he hedged with a Nitro safety and a 3 man DL. Lancaster and Lowry couldn't get it done and whoever the safety was at ILB just disappeared. Z Smith had a horrid game and P Smith was mostly invisible. Even with help, you can't win with performances like that. Especially when the offense is shooting itself in the foot.

So i guess my question is why not switch to a “4-3 nickel” for the Niner game? Pettine brags that he runs both 4-3 and 3-4 schemes and can flip them on the fly. This Pettine sure talks a good game.

You could of had the smiths on the edge. Lowry and Clark in the middle with Lancaster rotating. Clog up the run lanes. Could slide Gary/Smith around in there on passing downs trying to get Gary involved. You keep Goodson and Martinez on the field. Throw Burks out there some. In nickel you mix Campbell out there with T. Williams in the slot depending on Kittle.

We might of been a little more susceptible to there passing game but I think the Chiefs showed that you make Garapalo beat you. Garapalo will make mistakes. Make him throw!!! The outcome couldn’t of been any worse for us.

The game plan sucked and the preparation sucked and it was the second time we played them so zero excuses. Pettine should be gone: I don’t trust him as he has shown he is too stubborn. There are mumblings in his past that he picks favorites which is a bunch of Harry High School Bullshit.

I’m not impressed at all with Mike Pettine. My fear is we just keep giving him top tier talent and he won’t make it work.

[GB-Brandon]

It’s pretty simple.


“More Bodies in the Box”

You have 3 first round picks and Big FA signing in the secondary so let them play

All this off the ball smoke and mirrors scheme isn’t the recipe against a power run team.

[pbmax]

So i guess my question is why not switch to a “4-3 nickel” for the Niner game? Pettine brags that he runs both 4-3 and 3-4 schemes and can flip them on the fly. This Pettine sure talks a good game.

You could of had the smiths on the edge. Lowry and Clark in the middle with Lancaster rotating. Clog up the run lanes. Could slide Gary/Smith around in there on passing downs trying to get Gary involved. You keep Goodson and Martinez on the field. Throw Burks out there some. In nickel you mix Campbell out there with T. Williams in the slot depending on Kittle.
k.

You can't hide Goodson in the passing game. He's too slow. You are simply asking them to isolate him or Martinez on a TE or WR and pray for the best. I would want to call plays against it. This is how they lost the first game, concentrating on the run and being killed by Kittle.

Goodson only plays when its an obvious run down.

In the payoff game they went with a heavy nickel 3-4 if that makes sense. On the LOS was Clark-Lancaster-Lowry. Smiths were OLB. 5 on the line with Martinez and whoever replaced Raven Green in the middle. On one of their TD plays we broke down after the game, Clark was getting a blow and Adams was in there instead. He got moved a bit but fought back but not enough to make a play. At best you could say he defended his gap with one arm.

Which was better than anyone else on the play.

The safety got buried, Martinez was late and there was too much space. Lancaster fell down and Lowry was backside with no pursuit. The Smith's never smelled the ball.

You need a special kind of DB to make that work. Not even Woodson played like that.

They either need another 1-3 tech D tackle who will close that gap or interfere with the Guard or they need a monster hybrid Nitro backer. If you play that offense in that heavy nickel, you might need both. Run plays like that took the Smiths out of the game.