Robinson signed to two year deal

[Harlan Huckleby]

And here's to you, Mr. Robinson
Teddy loves you more than you do know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mr. Robinson
The Hall holds a place for those who play
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files
We'd like to help you learn to help yourself
Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home

Not too shabby, not too shabby at all.
But I might have stood firm with the original "Heaven holds a place for those who pray" line, since he'll undoubtably be steered into the 12-step routine.

[red]

if the nfl wants to make alcohol out to be this big banned substance that they are willing to suspend a player for a whole year if he chooses to do. then IMO they need to test every player everyday, and they need to stop letting beer companies advertise during games and at stadiums. and you know what, they need to stop selling at games, because i can promise you there are thousands of very drunk people driving around on the streets of green bay and every other nfl city after a game.

but then nfl wouldn't do that, even if it would keep people safe and safe lives, because they would lose 100's of millions of dollars

[Terry]

Well, all that's needed next for good ole boy Cliff Christl is to call for a lynching. What an irrational and hysterical pile of pablum. People like him remind me that there's a good reason Joe McCarthy came from Wisconsin.

Rastak, because some people disagree with your perspective doesn't mean that they don't "get it." Attempting to diminish other posters' intelligence isn't a very effective tactic. I know it's tempting to believe your position is the only plausible opinion on this, but you're, quite simply, wrong about that.

Well, if you think about it, Rastak has an emotional investment in his point of view. This is pretty normal, I think, and something that is common to most all of us. If I may use a more b&w extreme example to illustrate the point, if a judge condemns a man to execution, you can be sure that he'll naturally be a lot less receptive to considerations of the merit of such a sentence afterward than he might have been beforehand.

In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.

I have to comment on this. All in all, Vince, I thought you wrote a superb post and, all in all, I am ok with the signing. In fact, I hoped the Packers would do this.

Having said that, in the above quote, I think you are making the same mistake at the opposite end of the spectrum that idle makes further down the page. I'm not a psychologist or a social worker and even if I were, I would want the consensus opinion of a dozen of the most brilliant in their fields - and even then, if there was but one dissenting opinion, I would pay especially close attention to it. The actual fact is that you and idle and I don't know if being signed will be good for Koren or bad for Koren. The way you put it, it sounds like it will be good and indeed, perhaps it will be. It could also be argued, maybe, that the buzz, the hype, the fan adulation, the noise of controversies, the fickleness of fans, etc, etc, etc could be just about the worst thing for Koren Robinson right now.

I think the answer to that question is a very important one. In the end, it's probably still someone's best guess.

[Patler]

I did not read this whole thread so if it was discussed, I apologize...... but who did the Packers release to make room for Robinson?

No one yet. I started a thread about it. Robinson has not yet been signed, they only "agreed to terms." The Packers always word press releases very carefully.

I speculated that they are trying to trade a defensive tackle, probably Cory Williams, for a draft pick to open a roster spot to sign Robinson.

[jack's smirking revenge]

And here's to you, Mr. Robinson
Teddy loves you more than you do know (Wo, wo, wo)
God bless you please, Mr. Robinson
The Hall holds a place for those who play
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey)

We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files
We'd like to help you learn to help yourself
Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home

Not too shabby, not too shabby at all.
But I might have stood firm with the original "Heaven holds a place for those who pray" line, since he'll undoubtably be steered into the 12-step routine.

I wanted to throw the whole lyrics up there without many edits (of course I'd have to change the Mrs. to Mr.), but thought I'd be cute. And, the changes I made, I just did in a two-minute drill before posting. So, in hindsight, I'd probably keep the "Heaven" line, per your suggestion.

My main point was to lighten the discussion. I'm personally on the fence. I can see pros and cons to his signing. Seems like this is a pretty heated argument and all of the important points have been made on either side.

tyler

[Zool]

Coo coo ca choo Jack Yankovic. Nice one. I also am on the fence. The man makes some mighty horrible decisions off the field, but anything to help my Packers right now is welcome. I suppose thats selfish.

[Terry]

It will be the Packers' fault if the tragedy occurs in Wisconsin. There's no reason to believe he would be here if he were not playing for the Pack.

Well, Vince already addressed this, so I can drop two thirds of the thoughts that came to mind when I read it. I'll just say this: By that logic, if we didn't sign him, it could equally be argued that it would be the Packers' fault if a tragedy happened outside of Wisconsin.

The point is that it presupposes that signing him will in some way be a factor in the development of a tragedy. Maybe so, of course. But the inverse is also true.

Perhaps this argument would hold more water if he didn't screw up despite several chances with the Seahawks, and then screw up again only a month ago while in training camp with the 'queens. He has clearly demonstrated that a structured team environment does not keep him on the straight and narrow.

That doesn't follow - that is, that something not working twice before means it won't work a third time. If it did follow, we wouldn't have all those cute aphorisms in our culture about persistance. Furthermore, no two situations are the same.

Having said that, I would agree that a structured environment is not sufficient for people getting their lives together. Maybe for many, but some - and certainly for the most troubled - are just as likely to react adversely in such contexts. If that weren't so, the best sure cure for all of us would be the military.

However, structure and discipline are certainly normally elements of any sort of rehab program. If you study the routines and techniques of places like the Betty Ford clinic on down to the local rehab centre at the edge of town, discipline and structure are very much part of the program in all cases. There are good reasons for this, which we needn't expand upon here. But obviously there are also other things involved in any rehab process. As I said to vince, it's entirely possible that the environment of a football team surrounded by huge fans could be quite counter-productive to Koren's development. I think that's the important question. But I don't think it is one that we can answer. All such answers in this context are pure speculation.

[Terry]

Postscript: something I forgot to mention.

Nobody was hurt, but Koren cannot control whether there are other vehicles on the road when he goes on a bender.

I think this subject is one that merits some care in the choice of language. I've seen that word - bender - on a number of occasions in these discussions on different forums.

Does anyone know just exactly how much alcohol it takes to produce a blood alcohol level of 0.11?

I don't know. I've heard anywhere from "a couple of beers" to about 4 or 4.5 drinks. Neither of which constitutes a bender. It depends on many things, including constitution and built up resistance. Some alcoholics need a few drinks in the morning to even be able to behave soberly. Many drinkers and alcoholics can down 4 drinks without any noticeable effect - others will be on their asses. My guess would be that in the case of a large, strong, healthy, athletic alcoholic, 4 drinks would be a long way from a 'bender'.

[the_idle_threat]

Vince and Terry,

There are types of structured environments other than a football team in the NFL. What I'm saying is, the football kind of structure obviously hasn't worked for Koren ... maybe it's time to try something else. Do you remember the definition of insanity?

Add the factor that WI enjoys recreational drinking as a point of civic pride, and it really seems we're trying to rehabilitate a wolf in a henhouse. I really don't think this logic is too tough to handle...

RE: the Packers being at fault, you have so completely missed the point that it would take an enormous amount of time to explain ... time I do not have. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

For that matter, we will have to agree to disagree on the whole thing, really. What's done is done. I'm not happy about it, and I hope Koren gets lucky again when he melts down in the future.

[mraynrand]

right off the bat this turned into a discusion about how nfl players that drink and drive should be given the chair and never be allowed to work again. even though the rest of the world is allowed to go on living when they do it, with little more then a slap on the wrist

I think it's more important to stop enabling drunks and drunk drivers by repeated slaps on the wrist until they kill someone - and often, even after they kill someone. The fact that K-Rob is an NFL player just makes the problem more visible. But it is a major problem. An incredibly high percentage of traffic fatalities and life-changing injuries result from alcohol-related accidents.

This comment was sponsored by KoorsLite - please drink responsibly. Right.

[Patler]

[quote="mraynrand"]

.

This comment was sponsored by KoorsLite - please drink responsibly. Right.

I've always thought they should say what they really mean, "...please drink responsibly, BUT MAKE SURE YOU DRINK!" Just a little honesty in advertizing.

[NewsBruin]

Red, do you think that's been the mindset of those on this board, or would you like me to draw a similarly exaggerated opposing viewpoint.

There are folks here who just don't think this is the best thing for Koren Robinson right now, and who have questioned what effect it will have on the lockerroom.

[woodbuck27]

It will be the Packers' fault if the tragedy occurs in Wisconsin. There's no reason to believe he would be here if he were not playing for the Pack.

Well, Vince already addressed this, so I can drop two thirds of the thoughts that came to mind when I read it. I'll just say this: By that logic, if we didn't sign him, it could equally be argued that it would be the Packers' fault if a tragedy happened outside of Wisconsin.

The point is that it presupposes that signing him will in some way be a factor in the development of a tragedy. Maybe so, of course. But the inverse is also true.

Perhaps this argument would hold more water if he didn't screw up despite several chances with the Seahawks, and then screw up again only a month ago while in training camp with the 'queens. He has clearly demonstrated that a structured team environment does not keep him on the straight and narrow.

That doesn't follow - that is, that something not working twice before means it won't work a third time. If it did follow, we wouldn't have all those cute aphorisms in our culture about persistance. Furthermore, no two situations are the same.

Having said that, I would agree that a structured environment is not sufficient for people getting their lives together. Maybe for many, but some - and certainly for the most troubled - are just as likely to react adversely in such contexts. If that weren't so, the best sure cure for all of us would be the military.

However, structure and discipline are certainly normally elements of any sort of rehab program. If you study the routines and techniques of places like the Betty Ford clinic on down to the local rehab centre at the edge of town, discipline and structure are very much part of the program in all cases. There are good reasons for this, which we needn't expand upon here. But obviously there are also other things involved in any rehab process. As I said to vince, it's entirely possible that the environment of a football team surrounded by huge fans could be quite counter-productive to Koren's development. I think that's the important question. But I don't think it is one that we can answer. All such answers in this context are pure speculation.

There appears to be two distinct sides to this possible addition of Koren Robinson to OUR 53 Man roster. Well three.

1.) The YES. . ASAP as OUR Team is in dire straits.The SELFISH response.

The " Quick Fix is in" approach.

2. The NO . . NO DAM WAY !! . . as he's an ALCOHOLIC and will screw-up inevitably and embarass Packer fans and the PACKER ORGANIZATION.

I'll start and end with the third one:

a) The third one is on the basis of a purely ethical / logical response by Packer GM Ted Thompson.(to or not to) bring Koren Robinson in?

Here - is where we get a fix on OUR GM Ted Thompson the REAL Man.

The test is before "this mystery man" to me as I stand. What will TT do as a response to Koren Robinson will reveal his strong and consequent STRONK or WEAK suits as a MAN.

This really interests me.

My take on this possible addition to OUR Packers. Not GM Ted Thompson's Packers. OURS !!

If " the Vikings " and " the Seahawks " passed on Koren Robinson and considering the question of:

Didn't the Seahawks and OUR GM Ted Thompson (while there) see and suffer the issue's of KR and respond as they felt necessary after TT came to Green Bay in Jan. 2005? That decision by the Seahawks Organization can't be second guessed based on all we realize about Koren TODAY.

The Seahawks were correct in releasing Koren Robinson despite his draft status, talent...

and potential +ve to them/and any team...

as a versatile and acknowledged personable football player with added versatility @ WR/KR/PR.

WHY ?

It has to be weighed (strongly as an OVERRIDING (ALL ELSE) NEGATIVE) ...
" the fact of Koren Robinson's illness/disease...called ALCOHOLIM ".

TODAY... and for whatever TIME it takes... for proper treatment tomorrows... ALCOHOLISM in Koren Robinson still WINS !!

THE PACKERS response or ted thompson's response mut be isolated to assisting Koren Robinson in dealing with ALCOHOLISM as a first and ONLY priorityand absolutely must not for the immediate future entertain any serious measure to allow Koren Robinson to play football for us wit this aside.

If Ted Thompson goes there he must via Contract prepare a TOTAL and reasonable timeline support FOR Koren Robinson. he can't use and abuse him with any neglect as an ethical response to Koren Robinson. i

It's one of those time to pay the Piper situations.packer fans and Rastak. Without treatmeent it's not a matter of will he screw up and do something else destructive but when will that take place.

Not a label but a fact. Koren Robinson is an ALCOHOLIC ! He will always be. . an ALCOHOLIC. Koren Robinson is sick with a disease /illness termed ALCHOLISM.It's symptoms mired in destructive behaviors and consequent damage/destruction of various degrees and consequences.

ALCOHOLISM iin my studies is related often to "an addictive personality" and often genetically predisposed. ALCOHOLISM cannot just up and disappear with treatment. It will remain with the ALCOHOLIC and be destructive /self-destructive without the ALCOHOLIC admitting he/she is powerless when using alcohol

Koren Robinson therefore must enter treatment to dry out and incorporate the BEST ALCOHOLISM and Long Term CARE on a 100% consistent basis from the time he recovers in the best theraputic environment we as the green bay packers can avail to him ASAP.

He can't play football for "the Packers" untill he is cured of Alcoholism and set on the CORRECT path.Otherwise the ALCOHOLISM will go ALL OFF on him and "the Green Bay Packers".

If ted Thompson even seriously considered putting Koren robinson on the field after maybe a day or so of thought in that dieection ?

That wouls be STUPID on ted's part.That would demonstrate to me that Ted Thompsonis weak as a person.That would demonstrate to me clearly that ted thompson can't be trusted as an ethical /moral person.

That would clearly define to me that Ted Thompson isn't. . ' to use his term" Packer People. How could I trust ted thompson as the GMof my team?

I couldn't.

Turning to my immediate concern as a human being;

NFL former Football player Koren Robinson

The PROGRAM for any Alcoholic and therefore Koren Robinson is this:

1. KR must ( NO LONGER !) deny that he has any control of alcohol use in his personal life. He is afflicted with "the DISEASE / IllNESS called ALCOHOLISM and Koren must realize that admitting that. . . is far from anything shameful. The 1st Step of the 12 - Step Program for any Addiction or desructive Lifestyle via acting addictively.

2. KR must have a REAL and determined desire to clean up (DRY OUT !!) and absolutely STOP his symptoms like destructive and self-destructive behaviors that are more or less guranteed through any alcohol use.

3. Koren Robinson needs support not judgement.

Koren Robinson has to go public with his ALCOHOLISM.

Koren's in the limelight and not low profile. He's an NFL player now under a microscope.

Any attempt to hide embarassment by him is folly (counter-productive) and conditions more criticism's and judgement and the shame/guilt>>>addictive Cycle will win.

Koren Robinson will not be able to have ant REAL chance of overcoming the destruction of alcoholism, without proper support fron non judgementle and non ignorant people.

Koren doesn't need a judging reaction from people once he arrives at 1.) and 2.) above.

Koren needs proper and consistent +ve and realistic support. That means a proper TREATMENT Fascility ASAP and cannot be added to the Packers as an immediate need fulfillled alternative.He's very sick.he needs help not more pressure under the limelight of playing for "the Packers".

Koren won't be useful to us on an ethical basis until he answers to himself and the Legal System " the Courts ". ALL that will stress him in addition to the stress inherant in trying to help a really bad football team get back on some more even keel.

3. In treatment and after proper recovery in a confined setting (Treatment Fascility) Maybe, Koren will learn and understand the negative impact " of the addictive personality " as a possible contributing factor in his damaged LIFE? I make reference in possibly channeling the disease of Alcoholism to other destructive addictive pursuits in his (Koren's) future.

After a Pro Bowl Season (2005) and " the Vikings " trying to clean up their house. KR's last brush with fate and not dealing with his problem, again demanded that KR be turned out.

The NFL is in the business of winning at football and not rehabilitation generally.

As a NFL fan i hate it that Koren robinson has been left out there on his own (with an agent of course ) but stuck in his ALCOHOLISM.

TWO rejections by Solid NFL Organizations predispose Koren robinson's future as an NFL player.That fact trumps all else.

Will the green PBay packers step up and assist Koren robinson and is it possible that ted thompson is genuinely a decent man who drafted Koren robinson and feels compassion for Koren/

Will Ted use his position to reach out as necessary to his BOSS"s to offer help. .REAL TREATMENT HELP for KOREN ROBINSON.

To ask WR/KR/PR Koren Robinson. . . to be an active Packer ...to go on the field within the next 3-4 months (this season) is TOTALLY and BLATANLY WRONG.
If Ted Thompson on behalf of "the GREEN BAY PACKERS' offers the REAL HELP Koren Robinson needs . .THAT will be impressive.

After treatment there is no gurantee. Maybe ( just maybe ) Koren Robinson may be a productive Packer for OUR future?

[It's just that or let go of Koren Robinson.

DO WHAT's RIGHT and ONLY weighed for the HONOR of the GREEN BAY PACKERS ORGANIZATION. . GM Ted Thompson.

Ted. ONLY ONE OPTION with Koren Robinson.

There's ONLY the " the possibility of what goes around comes around" in a decision to assist Koren Robinson in a FULL Re-Habilitation PROGRAM.

[Football's OUT for Koren Robinson till he gets HELP.

[RashanGary]

I say we should just use him as long as he's not suspended, only pay him for the weeks we use like TT did with the contract and then cut him when we no longer have use for him if it gets to that.

Forget about fixing this guy. If he wants help, he can get it himself. We have no risk here. Use him for what he's worth *alot on ST's and maybe in teh offense* and allow him to be choose his own path.

I'm a firm believer in people need to help themselves. Robinson has that chacne. It's nto up to the GB Packers to force him into anything. That is his choice. If he hit's bottom he'll do it. IF not, he'll keep going. Nobody can force it.

I want him returning punts and kicks this week and starting to play offense the followign week. He's an asset right now. When he gets suspended, cut him if it's for a full year.

[Guiness]

if the nfl wants to make alcohol out to be this big banned substance that they are willing to suspend a player for a whole year if he chooses to do. then IMO they need to test every player everyday, and they need to stop letting beer companies advertise during games and at stadiums. and you know what, they need to stop selling at games, because i can promise you there are thousands of very drunk people driving around on the streets of green bay and every other nfl city after a game.

but then nfl wouldn't do that, even if it would keep people safe and safe lives, because they would lose 100's of millions of dollars

Red - the NFL does not want to make alcohol a 'big banned substance'. Actually, as far as I can tell, they could care less if the average player gets falling down drunk every day. It's a legal substance, and that's that. The NFL does not punish players for drinking alcohol, they punish players for related offenses i.e. drunk driving.

The Commissioner will review and may impose a fine, suspension, or other appropriate discipline if a player is convicted of or admits to a violation of the law relating to the use of alcohol.

Alcohol is not one of their regularly tested substances. It only becomes so after a player enters the substance abuse program.

Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players
in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy.

Of course, KRob is already in the program

Both of these quotes are from the official NFLPA policy at http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/rulesandre...olicy_2005.pdf
Took me a bit to find it, but it's a good read if you've been following this thread.