Future of the Packers O-Line

[mraynrand]

As for that shit about holding onto the ball too long and supposedly missing open receivers, it's incredible to me that some people presume to know better than the QB on the field.

That's a straw man. Maybe holding the ball longer is better and represents good judgment by the QB or maybe it's bad. As far as the argument over quality of pass protection, it's a distraction. You're just wrong about the quality of pass pro by Bacteria and the rest of the line. Whatever the consequences of Rodgers holding the ball longer are, he does hold it longer, it's a provable fact, the line protects better, longer: another provable fact, and you're simply wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Suck on it.

[pbmax]

We might be having a 20 post continuing argument over a very narrow gap.

Bobble, who watched O line play as closely as anyone we have here (I am not sure if Nutz has weighed in), thinks Bach is slightly overrated. That he isn't a shut down, close the door, set it and forget it LT like Clifton or Jason Peters.

But he does feel he is good. Worth the investment of his second contract if I remember correctly. Don't know how he feels about a third.

So its possible that the real argument here is between a Top 7 LT (2019 was a down year esp early so probably not true for for 2019 alone) and Top 15.

My feeling is that he can play at an elite level but rules emphasis and injuries hampered him in 2019. He does not dominate in the run game but is mobile enough to be effective in a ZBS and is better at pass pro.

If you remember Newhouse or Barbre or Colledge trying to play LT, I think you want him back though perhaps not at elite dollars.

[mraynrand]

That seems right on the money.

[texaspackerbacker]

That's a straw man. Maybe holding the ball longer is better and represents good judgment by the QB or maybe it's bad. As far as the argument over quality of pass protection, it's a distraction. You're just wrong about the quality of pass pro by Bacteria and the rest of the line. Whatever the consequences of Rodgers holding the ball longer are, he does hold it longer, it's a provable fact, the line protects better, longer: another provable fact, and you're simply wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Suck on it.

Yeah, he holds it longer hahahahahaha ...... and what is he doing all those seconds? Just standing around stewing about making a decision - "to throw or not to throw, that is the question"? Hell no, he's running for his life trying to escape the slings of arrows coming in over Bakhtiari more than anywhere else, then either slinging an arrow on his own while on the run or resetting and doing the same or maybe running for a first down or maybe throwing it away rather than up for grabs. Sheeeesh.

[texaspackerbacker]

We might be having a 20 post continuing argument over a very narrow gap.

Bobble, who watched O line play as closely as anyone we have here (I am not sure if Nutz has weighed in), thinks Bach is slightly overrated. That he isn't a shut down, close the door, set it and forget it LT like Clifton or Jason Peters.

But he does feel he is good. Worth the investment of his second contract if I remember correctly. Don't know how he feels about a third.

So its possible that the real argument here is between a Top 7 LT (2019 was a down year esp early so probably not true for for 2019 alone) and Top 15.

My feeling is that he can play at an elite level but rules emphasis and injuries hampered him in 2019. He does not dominate in the run game but is mobile enough to be effective in a ZBS and is better at pass pro.

If you remember Newhouse or Barbre or Colledge trying to play LT, I think you want him back though perhaps not at elite dollars.

I guess I mostly agree with this - a very narrow gap hahahahaha. A couple of things: if you're hampered by "rules emphasis" more than others in the same position, that kinda says something about you. I was shocked to find out in the course of this discussion that Bakhtiari ALREADY makes $12 million a year. However, even if it's arguable that he has been worth that much - I arguably would argue, no, he clearly is on the downside, and it wouldn't be smart to pay him that much on a new contract.

Yeah, I remember Newhouse or Barbre or Colledge trying to play LT, and I won't say one word in their defense, and yes, even I will concede that Bakhtiari was an upgrade. Remember this also, though, all of those either overlapped Aaron Rodgers or played their whole Packer career with Rodgers, not to even mention Favre. In other words, the Packers were damn good even with those guys at LT - a very narrow gap from with Bakhtiari. Thus, the bottom line for me is that Aaron Rodgers simply doesn't need much quality of pass blocking to excel that nobody else. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he plays better running for his life like he almost always has had to.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, he holds it longer hahahahahaha ...... and what is he doing all those seconds? Just standing around stewing about making a decision - "to throw or not to throw, that is the question"? Hell no, he's running for his life trying to escape the slings of arrows coming in over Bakhtiari more than anywhere else, then either slinging an arrow on his own while on the run or resetting and doing the same or maybe running for a first down or maybe throwing it away rather than up for grabs. Sheeeesh.

That’s fine. Stay impervious to facts and just spout more nonsensical bullshit. It suits you.

[bobblehead]

We might be having a 20 post continuing argument over a very narrow gap.

Bobble, who watched O line play as closely as anyone we have here (I am not sure if Nutz has weighed in), thinks Bach is slightly overrated. That he isn't a shut down, close the door, set it and forget it LT like Clifton or Jason Peters.

But he does feel he is good. Worth the investment of his second contract if I remember correctly. Don't know how he feels about a third.

So its possible that the real argument here is between a Top 7 LT (2019 was a down year esp early so probably not true for for 2019 alone) and Top 15.

My feeling is that he can play at an elite level but rules emphasis and injuries hampered him in 2019. He does not dominate in the run game but is mobile enough to be effective in a ZBS and is better at pass pro.

If you remember Newhouse or Barbre or Colledge trying to play LT, I think you want him back though perhaps not at elite dollars.

You sum up my opinion pretty good. (huh...someone actually reads my drivel). I think the new holding rules hurt Bak early last year as much as injury. He adjusted. I absolutely want him on another contract as OL tend to be able to play at advanced age unless injuries take a toll on the body. The only way you don't sign Bak to another 3 years is if one of the youngsters has shown such skill in practice that you feel good having him at LT. We have some athletes on the roster, but lets see if that translates into the desire to win every play that it takes to play LT in the NFL.

[bobblehead]

I guess I mostly agree with this - a very narrow gap hahahahaha. A couple of things: if you're hampered by "rules emphasis" more than others in the same position, that kinda says something about you. I was shocked to find out in the course of this discussion that Bakhtiari ALREADY makes $12 million a year. However, even if it's arguable that he has been worth that much - I arguably would argue, no, he clearly is on the downside, and it wouldn't be smart to pay him that much on a new contract.

Yeah, I remember Newhouse or Barbre or Colledge trying to play LT, and I won't say one word in their defense, and yes, even I will concede that Bakhtiari was an upgrade. Remember this also, though, all of those either overlapped Aaron Rodgers or played their whole Packer career with Rodgers, not to even mention Favre. In other words, the Packers were damn good even with those guys at LT - a very narrow gap from with Bakhtiari. Thus, the bottom line for me is that Aaron Rodgers simply doesn't need much quality of pass blocking to excel that nobody else. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he plays better running for his life like he almost always has had to.

Tex, there are only 4-5 BETTER LTs in the league than Bak. 3-5 equal. So worst case he is a top 10 LT. My arguments in the past were with people saying he was Trent Williams (who I hope is slipping now that SF landed him). Fan(atics) that were telling me he was the great wall of china and the best LT in the league. I like the fact he actually can run block some. Clifton was downright inept. Clifton on the other hand was the wall in pass set. You want Bak back. The odds of the next guy to man that position being better than him are small.

[Bretsky]

I've always considered Bach a top 15 LT. And I just don't think you let that walk. Maybe he's 8,12, or 15. Either way you gotta keep that on your team.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, there are only 4-5 BETTER LTs in the league than Bak. 3-5 equal. So worst case he is a top 10 LT. My arguments in the past were with people saying he was Trent Williams (who I hope is slipping now that SF landed him). Fan(atics) that were telling me he was the great wall of china and the best LT in the league. I like the fact he actually can run block some. Clifton was downright inept. Clifton on the other hand was the wall in pass set. You want Bak back. The odds of the next guy to man that position being better than him are small.

I doubt Bakhtiari was anywhere near that good when he was at his best, and he seems to be deteriorating in the past couple of seasons. As I have said, ya'all are probably gonna get your wish, and the Packers will overpay to keep him. I hope not, though.