Official 2020 Packers vs New Orleans Saints Week 3

[RashanGary]

Matt Shneidman who writes for, the athletic, interviewed nfl scouts and gms. He came up with a top 12 CB list and Jaire made it at 7. Jaire is #1 on PFF right now. He hasn't made a pro bowl, but he's pro bowl caliber

Clark, Zadarius and Alexander are legit pro bowl level guys.

P is a solid player, being asked to do a lot of coverage this year cuz Z and Gary really don't do that well
King and Amos are solid
Kirksey is servicable
Gary is a big upgrade over Gary a year ago. 4 QB hits in two games vs 3 in 16 a year ago
Sullivan, Greene and Redmond are all experienced with the defense
Barnes looks like a nice upgrade over last year's ILB #2
Too early to say on Savage

Lowry, Lancaster are same as a year ago
Keke and Adams should be improved


Just going through the roster of guys who are gonna play on defense, the guys we have are more up and coming than falling off. P is doing Fackrells coverage stuff but Gary is holding his own in Ps spot up front. Kirksey looks about equal to Martinez. All of this is probably a wash. The secondary is missing Williams, but in his place are guys with some experience who are more physical. The rest of the secondary should be on the upswing.

I kinda thought the Packers defense would be improved over last year because the guys we lost weren't that good and should have been replaceable. But the way it's turning out, losing fackrell takes away from P rushing so Garys growth ends up being a wash. Turns out Martinez was a better blitzer and a little more stout as a tackler so Kirkseys coverage ends up being a wash. And Tramon played really well, so the young, physical nickel/Dime guys are turning into a wash too

Missing Clark is the biggest difference on this defense vs last year's right now.

Once Clark is back, i expect a similar quality defense to a year ago with probably a slight improvement from the up and coming secondary and a slight improvement from keke.

Going into season I was saying top 5 easy. I misjudged the affect of the guys we lost
With games played, I think top 10 once Clark is back with a possible push for the 5 spot


The safeties just aren't as good as I thought they'd be.

[RashanGary]

Had we kept Fackrell and Martinez, wed be a little better right now. P, Z and Gary would be freed up by fackrell to eat DL snaps. And Martinez and Kirksey would make our bigger packages more effective.

But here we are. A little different than last year, but probably similar to a year ago once Clark comes back. Glad SF is destroyed by injury.

[RashanGary]

And Kirksey not being able to catch Cousins from behind was a bad sign. He needs a healthy year to really train his body back to full speed. Maybe he'll be able to make progress with that speed training throughout the season.

[Upnorth]

From what I have seen this year back up nt was the most important position we should have drafted. Our d with Clark was shut down. Without we are a bit below average. Hopefully we can find one some how.
Unfortunately no biggest asset currently is Tamara so we need to be strong against the run. If Clark isn't back we arent even average against the run.
How are the Saints cbs looking?

[Joemailman]

From what I have seen this year back up nt was the most important position we should have drafted. Our d with Clark was shut down. Without we are a bit below average. Hopefully we can find one some how.
Unfortunately no biggest asset currently is Tamara so we need to be strong against the run. If Clark isn't back we arent even average against the run.
How are the Saints cbs looking?

Saints CB's have been effective. All of passing TD's Saints have given up have been against safeties and linebackers. Saints couldn't stop Raiders TE Monday night (12 catches, 103 yards, 1 TD) so look for LaFleur to target TE's more this week.

[Upnorth]

Saints CB's have been effective. All of passing TD's Saints have given up have been against safeties and linebackers. Saints couldn't stop Raiders TE Monday night (12 catches, 103 yards, 1 TD) so look for LaFleur to target TE's more this week.

So we had Adams and mvs in week 1, Jones wk 2. I doubt tonyon and Sternberg will be wk 3 but it would be nice.

Man I hate the way my phone autocorrect stuff. I must be getting old as the tech is starting to beat me

[Joemailman]

Had we kept Fackrell and Martinez, wed be a little better right now. P, Z and Gary would be freed up by fackrell to eat DL snaps. And Martinez and Kirksey would make our bigger packages more effective.

But here we are. A little different than last year, but probably similar to a year ago once Clark comes back. Glad SF is destroyed by injury.

Well, I suppose. But I doubt Kirksey would have signed here if Gute had signed Martinez. And vice versa. They both play the same position. Also, Martinez' cap hit is 10M this year. Signing him and Kirksey would have meant making cuts elsewhere.

[run pMc]

Brady looks good though. Live arm. He’ll be fine

Agree Brady's arm looks better than Brees'. He had some zip on 15+ yard throws that Drew doesn't, and he can throw with touch.

As for "great weapons" I think we have Adams and Jones. I'll wait for the DVOA and DYAR numbers to stabilize after Week 4 before making any snap judgements. So far, I will say that to my eye Rodgers, MVS and Lazard have looked better than last year.

I'm really beginning to believe the theory of addition by subtraction re: Allison/Graham. Those guys were ineffective and taking up snaps/targets.

[run pMc]

Well, I suppose. But I doubt Kirksey would have signed here if Gute had signed Martinez. And vice versa. They both play the same position. Also, Martinez' cap hit is 10M this year. Signing him and Kirksey would have meant making cuts elsewhere.

Agree. Also, I would have really hated to think about Blake eating up $10M of cap space for years. The guy was AJ Hawk, only drafted in the right round. Signing him to a big contract would have been overspending IMO. He's not an elite or even top 5 ILB. 30.75M w/ 19M guaranteed for Blake vs. 13 and 4 for Kirksey? For the production so far I'll take Kirksey.

Fackrell is 29 years old and isn't going to get any better -- he is what he is at this point. I liked him as a depth piece but also felt he's replaceable. At that point you draft a young guy with some upside like Kamal IMO. All that said, they still have issues on the DL and ILB that next draft needs to address (along with OL, WR, and probably CB).

[Anti-Polar Bear]

From what I have seen this year back up nt was the most important position we should have drafted. Our d with Clark was shut down. Without we are a bit below average. Hopefully we can find one some how.
Unfortunately no biggest asset currently is Tamara so we need to be strong against the run. If Clark isn't back we arent even average against the run.
How are the Saints cbs looking?

I dunno what’s it’s like in the CFL, but in the NFL, the Packer defense certainly has NOT been “shutdown” with Clark, nor has it been “average” against the run. See the last NFC Title game for proof. Or the the first Viking game this season.

A lot of you wankers act like Clark’s All-Pro. Fat man can’t even crack the players’ top 100 list. Clark is overrated and overpaid.

[RashanGary]

Well, I suppose. But I doubt Kirksey would have signed here if Gute had signed Martinez. And vice versa. They both play the same position. Also, Martinez' cap hit is 10M this year. Signing him and Kirksey would have meant making cuts elsewhere.

For sure. Wagner and Kirksey both look like really good moves to patch things up at a lower cost. Just talking reality that we have some drop off with Martinez, Williams and fackrell all playing roles that we miss a little. It's a salary cap league so it's understandable just not seamless

[Upnorth]

I dunno what’s it’s like in the CFL, but in the NFL, the Packer defense certainly has NOT been “shutdown” with Clark, nor has it been “average” against the run. See the last NFC Title game for proof. Or the the first Viking game this season.

A lot of you wankers act like Clark’s All-Pro. Fat man can’t even crack the players’ top 100 list. Clark is overrated and overpaid.

With clark in the game they gave up 10 points 125 yards got a saftey and a pick. With out (in less time) they gave up 24 points and over 225 yards.
Yup sounds like Clark is a jag.

Small sample size but if you look at previous years its the same story.
For example pff had only donald as a better player last year.

[Joemailman]

For sure. Wagner and Kirksey both look like really good moves to patch things up at a lower cost. Just talking reality that we have some drop off with Martinez, Williams and fackrell all playing roles that we miss a little. It's a salary cap league so it's understandable just not seamless

I can't get a handle on this defense yet. In the 4th quarter of Game 1 and the 1st quarter of Game 2 they allowed TD's on 5 consecutive drives for 38 points. Before and after those 2 quarters they've allowed 17 points in 6 quarters.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

With clark in the game they gave up 10 points 125 yards got a saftey and a pick. With out (in less time) they gave up 24 points and over 225 yards.
Yup sounds like Clark is a jag.

Small sample size but if you look at previous years its the same story.
For example pff had only donald as a better player last year.

Please explain to me how a shutdown D allowed a 69ers rushing attack to pound the rock up and down its ass. Clark played in that game.

Packers still can’t stop the run. Stopping the run starts with the D-Line and D-Line starts with Clark. Clark’s a milksop. The opportunity cost of overpaying Clark is Aaron Jones imminent departure.

[GB-Brandon]

We’re not gonna be a “dominant run stopping team” with or without Clark. People need to put that pipe dream to bed. The best we can hope for is a repeat of last years defense IMO at this point. Maybe a little better vs the pass in 3rd and long towards the end of the season. That’s about it.