Rodgers 2020 MVP campaign!

[Upnorth]

Number of career starts it took before defense gave up 30+ points in back to back games:

Justin Herbert: 4
Peyton Manning: 7
Aaron Rodgers: 12
Patrick Mahomes: 13
Drew Brees: 26
Dan Marino: 37
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Tom Brady: 295

Is that true or are you making a joke?

[Joemailman]

Rodgers has lost 5 playoff games where the Packers opponent scored 37 or more points (2009 - Arizona/2011 - New York/ 2012 - San Francisco/2016 - Atlanta/2019 - San Francisco). He has lost 2 overtime playoff games where he never got the ball in overtime. He hasn't been perfect, but he has been handicapped.

[George Cumby]

Up until the last two years, when there was something wrong with Rodgers, I never was nervous when he had the ball, no matter the stakes. Third and twelve? No problem. I just knew he was going to make a play or a great throw. Digressing: think of the sense of dread when Favre would have the ball in clutch situations.

I think Harv's QBR comparison is enough to send me over the edge. I'll take Rodgers over Brady.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers has lost 5 playoff games where the Packers opponent scored 37 or more points (2009 - Arizona/2011 - New York/ 2012 - San Francisco/2016 - Atlanta/2019 - San Francisco). He has lost 2 overtime playoff games where he never got the ball in overtime. He hasn't been perfect, but he has been handicapped.

Interesting. In addition to faulty D, I guess they needed to improve their coin flipping skills.

[bobblehead]

It's never simple in these types of discussions. Points for, points against are meaningless, because the number of possessions can change so much. Not saying Rodgers has played with great defenses, but I think many were not nearly as bad as their average "points against" might lead one to believe. As some have alluded to, McCarthy and Rodgers when they were at their best would fly up and down the field. The Packers offense didn't keep their defense off the field for long even when they were scoring touchdowns. Other teams had to open up their offenses to try and keep up. Lots of points for both teams were inevitable.

Some very good athletes play at their average or expected performance consistently, others "averages" are achieved with very high highs and very low lows. Both Rodgers and Brady have been consistent performers; so, for me, the distinction is even more subtle than that

I have always said that the amazing thing about Bart Starr was high much he rose to the occasion in the biggest moments of the biggest games. Sure, Unitas was a "better" QB, but if I had to pick a QB to engineer a winning drive in their era, it would have been Starr. Especially in the years of their three-peat, when the team was getting old with many players already replaced, Starr was the key to their success. After the Ice Bowl, many players talked about how calm their huddles were during the winning drive. They knew they would score, because Bart Starr would not allow them to fail. No panic, just reasolve.

As for Brady vs Rodgers, to be perfectly honest I have not actually watched all that many of Brady's playoff games to really know. I made the bold and forceful choice of him over Rodgers to rile things up a bit as much as anything. However, I have seen all of the Packer playoff games, and there were a lot of them in which I thought a GOAT should have made plays that Rodgers did not. Not that he had terrible games, but when winning or losing comes down to just a handful of plays, the GOAT has to make them. Like when he missed the wide open Jennings running behind the Arizona defense in overtime ......

As much feeling as analysis in my selection.

Some good points Patler. We need some NBA style defensive rankings like Points/yards per possesion or per 10 possessions. Something like that would give you a dominance factor. Maybe another metric stating yards/possession with a lead vs. while behind. Its not always black and white. And your final point sums it up. To paraphrase, I can't give you the numbers on a great QB or Defense, but I know it when I see it.

[bobblehead]

In my mind that describes Brett Favre more than Aaron Rodgers. Favre cost the Packers playoff victories. I think the losses with Rodgers are more on the players around him.

Brady missed plenty of receivers over the years, but nobody notices when you win. Brady played lousy in several games that the Patriots won -- especially during the first three Super Bowl seasons (ultimate game manager; just 11 TDs in 9 games over those three) and the last one (2 TDs in 3 playoff games and had a lousy Super Bowl). Just 13 TDs in 12 playoff games during those four Super Bowl seasons.

Agree and disagree. Just off my gut I would say Rodgers has FAR more playoff fumbles and picks than compared to similar regular season rates. Some of the losses he has been just as responsible for.

[smuggler]

I'm late on this, but I'll take Brady over Rodgers in a big game. As long as I get Belichik, too.

Is that true or are you making a joke?

Brady has 290 career regular season starts. Maybe this is including playoffs. Or it's just BS.

[Upnorth]

All other things being equal, like defense scheme skill players etc. I don't see how it is even a question who you take. Scheme matters. Coaching matters. Defense matters. Special teams matters.
The one area I would say rodgers has had more support than Brady in is oline.
In a vacumm with one game to win I pick rodgers first young second Marino third. I pick a few more before Brady as well. It is hard to separate the man from the myth but the setting tb has played in has helped him so much over the years. Matt cassel went 11-5 garrapalo 3-0 in that scheme. I don't think a rodgers backup has won a game since 2011.

As to rodgers 2020 MVP I think he has to overcome a lot of pro Wilson sentiment. When they meet again it will be epic. Has a manning Brady feel

[SudsMcBucky]

I'm late on this, but I'll take Brady over Rodgers in a big game. As long as I get Belichik, too.



Brady has 290 career regular season starts. Maybe this is including playoffs. Or it's just BS.

Which duo would you pick, then. Brady/Belichik or Rodgers/Belichik?

[Spaulding]

Which duo would you pick, then. Brady/Belichik or Rodgers/Belichik?

Good question as that's boiling it down to the lowest level. All things equal (same coach, same players outside of QB), who would you take Rodgers or Brady.

In my eyes it's pretty clear that I'd take Rodgers over Brady. However, even given that, in reality Brady will go down as the GOAT based purely on longevity and championships.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers now over Brady ever.

[RashanGary]

Brady matured faster, was always willing to take what is given, understood how deadly a thousand paper cuts can be. Rodgers had a hard on for the spectacular.

Rodgers now though, moves as well as Brady in his prime, has the arm of Brady in his prime. And he’s now matched Brady as far as being a fierce winner vs being a big play glory hound. Today Rodgers is better than Brady has ever been.

Consistent greatness.... I’d take Brady. GOATs for different reasons.

[Jaire]

Brady = system product.

Way way overrated. Just been reconsidering old debates the
last couple days and finding intetesting stats.

Rodgers is GOAT is seems and to my surprise, and by a bit. Compare his ranked (yards/points) defense with any elite QB. Favre is an interesting comp for instance.

Brady had elite D's and the best coach of the last 20 years by far. He needs an asterisk at his induction into HoF. Under any other coach he is average.

That said, Brady maxed the tools he had. Rodgers, to compare, was given the Marino treatment (though losing Collins, Tramon, Shields, & Woodson was the worst luck ever). Even Marino had more top 10 defenses than Rodgers though that was the era of NFC dominance and some really stacked teams until FA.

How's that for a first post?

[Jaire]

Rodgers >>>> Brady

Rodgers had the worst defenses of any HoF QB, worse than Marino. The rankings don't lie. I only just realized how much better ARod is than any QB of the last 30 years at least.

Brady had the best Defenses of any QB over the last 20 years and the best coach by far of the last 2 decades.

Brady maxed the gifts he has but he was very lucky. Just remember his first 3 Super bowls. Watch the Bucs go 8-8. It was BB, not Brady. As to the digs on Arod, that's how Mac trained him tbh. MLF deserves much credit for turning Rodgers career back on track. I agree Rodgers now is better than Brady ever was.

1st post

[Jaire]

Rodgers >>>> Brady

Rodgers had the worst defenses of any HoF QB, worse than Marino. The rankings don't lie. I only just realized how much better ARod is than any QB of the last 30 years at least.

Brady had the best Defenses of any QB over the last 20 years and the best coach by far of the last 2 decades. Brady maxed the gifts he has but he was very lucky. Just remember his first 3 Super bowls. Watch the Bucs go 8-8. It was BB, not Brady. As to the digs on Arod, that's how Mac trained him tbh. MLF deserves much credit for turning Rodgers career back on track. I agree Rodgers now is better than Brady ever was.