What happens if Rodgers wants to stay but management wants to move on??

[run pMc]

You're probably right that I'm being overly bombastic, but I think I'm still frustrated and pissed about Saturday night. It's the culmination of several years of increasing frustration and disillusionment with Rodgers, all come to a head.

You're right, I know that my opinion is just that - an opinion, and certainly not objective fact. And of course yours is every bit as valid as my own, but I'm finally no longer capable of believing this guy is ever going to change enough to win a Super Bowl. Absolutely the best pure skill set of anyone who has ever taken a snap from center inthe NFL (and that opinion is one that I will strongly defend as objective fact), but he's a total head case. This conspiracy theory bullshit that he's been spouting the last couple of weeks just seals the deal for me - his head doesn't work the way it was designed.

I'd prefer that head be some other team's postseaon heartbreak after this season, not ours. I've loved watching him play, but I'd like to experience the thrill of watching my Packers win at least one more Lombardi Trophy in the relatively few years I probably have left. It's impossible for me to believe that's going to happen with Rodgers still wearing a Green Bay uniform. I want to see him traded to Denver for 1st and 2nd round picks, and Adams tagged and traded, so we can start rebuilding now - while we still have some cards to play, before we have no choice, and no options.

As much as I'd hate to see an MVP level QB leave, I think keeping him will be detrimental to the long term, and even if they do keep him the team will have to retool at WR and DL/OLB/ILB. The OL and CB spots look pretty good going forward, but this team will not have the same level of talent as this year. They weathered an incredible number of injuries, but I can't help but feel like they underperformed. How many times this year did you feel they played a complete game?

Re: Rodgers recent record in the playoffs. You can argue a few of these losses weren't on him, but consider these games: 2014 where Russ had like 4 INT's (he had thrown 7 all year), 2016 where they had LaDarius trying to guard Julio, a game where Jimmy G threw the ball 8 times, the Kevin King/Will Redmond fiasco, and a game where the opposing offense scored 6 points. It's really hard to get to the Owl with a great QB, but you need a defense and a good supporting cast/depth to do it. GB will be hard pressed to have that (special teams mess notwithstanding) in the next two seasons, which is the likely career window for Rodgers.

I agree trading him for picks would help them long term. I'm against that because great QBs are rare and it would be really hard to watch this team after what we've seen. I don't think it would be a lost decade like the 80's. Free agency and other factors (better scouting, QBs moving around) would likely mitigate that, plus I actually think Gute and MLF are at least average to above-average at their jobs (compare to CHI, NYJ, JAX, WFT, NYG). If Rodgers is gone, it won't be because Gute/MLF didn't try. It sounds like the relationships have been repaired significantly.

Rodgers could very well retire and they get nothing for him... which isn't a great ending either, but in some ways would be easier to take as a fan than seeing him dueling Mahomes for AFC supremacy on Monday night games.

[Thirteen Below]

Your opinion is welcome. If you would like to spout off your own stupidity and come to FYI and defend it I look forward to robust discussion. However in the football section keep your own ignorant, non fact based political opinions to yourself. Or you can be like HH, state something we aren't allowed to discuss as a fact when you are horribly wrong and uninformed and then hope Mad stops me and others from exposing your ignorance.

Jesus, do you always have this much difficulty controlling your emotions? You'd have to be amazingly easily triggered to interpet anything I said as a "political opinion," and even more easily triggered to throw such a childish tantrum over it. With that kind of thought process, you might want to be more cautious throwing around words like "ignorant."

[red]

Can you just "tear up" a contract and redo it? Like... is Aaron's 2022 numbers locked in, or can they be changed via an "extension" even though technically the terms of the new contract wouldn't begin until 2023?

I assume you can "tear up" the contract because they did last year to remove a year.

Assuming you *can* do the above, I put together this quick table in about 10 minutes.

Z - cut him and save 15M

Baktiari - Convert 3.2M base to 1M w/ rest becoming signing bonus (2.2M savings this year), Convert the 9.5M roster bonus into signing bonus (3.17M savings this year), save total of 5.3M

Rodgers - Redo contract to be a 3 year deal w/ minimum base salary and the rest as a signing bonus. 37M per year. 
	1M base salary per year
	108M signing bonus
	Use 5 void years
	13.5 signing bonus per year (5 years of carrying 13.5 dead cap, or they could do a retirement contract and redo it so the piper is paid over a year or two)

	Rodgers cap number is 14.5M this year

	So reducing his cap number from 48M to 13.5M is a saving of 35M

	Let's say they did 2 void years (for the post-Rodgers rebuild)

	1M base salary per year
	108M signing bonus
	Use 2 void years
	21.6 signing bonus per year

	Rodgers cap number this year is 22.M


Preston - Sign to a 2 year extension, 11M per year (hopefully realistic)
	- Convert 3.4M of roster bonus to signing bonus (save 1.13M this year)
    - Redo this year's salary from 8.35M to 1.35M and convert 7M to signing bonus (Save 2.3M this year)
    - Save total of ~3.5M without sacrificing future very much at all


Davante - Sign to 3 year deal worth 75M
	a. 1M salary per year
	b. 24M signing bonus per year
	c. 5 void years
	Cap hit per year is 9 per year

They can easily get under the cap and bring most folks back without totally blowing it up or FUBARing the cap too badly. It will be painful for a year or two post rodgers, but that's it. No biggie and frankly helps the rebuild.

your numbers are all kind of fucked

you want to give him a 108m signing bonus over 5 years. thats over 22 million in pro rated signing bonus per year for 5 years.

you would then have to add that to the already 19.1 m in signing bonus he already has

so doing your thing. we end up with 41 million in pro rated signing bonus for this year . plus the minimum salary for a guy his age (probably at least a couple million

so his cap number in 2022 would be somewhere around 43 million or more. cap saving of a few bucks

and the cap hit if released in year 2 or after would be massive. like 80 some million last year and around 60 million if traded or released or retires after the 2023 season

[Thirteen Below]

As much as I'd hate to see an MVP level QB leave, I think keeping him will be detrimental to the long term, and even if they do keep him the team will have to retool at WR and DL/OLB/ILB. The OL and CB spots look pretty good going forward, but this team will not have the same level of talent as this year. They weathered an incredible number of injuries, but I can't help but feel like they underperformed. How many times this year did you feel they played a complete game?

I have to say I see it pretty much the same way. There are teams out there that just never let up, never give you a chance to catch your breath, and it's been a long time since I've seen Green Bay as that kind of team. I sometimes wonder if some of the people in the organization (both on and off the field) have gotten into the habit of taking Rodgers for granted - just knowing that he's one of those very rare players who can just take an entire game away from the other team in less than a minute. I've seen this team perform at an elite level numerous times over the last 30 years, but I hardly ever seem to remember seeing them play with a sense of urgency, a killer instinct. Like for instance, the Niners did the other night.

I feel depressed too about what the team will look like after he goes. I dunno who we're going to replace him with, but we'll never see a quarterback with his skill in Green Bay again. I always knew that when Favre left, I'd never enjoy watching the game quite as much again, and I haven't. He was the most thrilling quarterback I ever saw, but Rodgers made up for that with his absolutely otherworldly skills. Now that we're almost at the end of Rodgers, I know that I'll never see such pure, utter brilliance in a quarterback again, and this time I know we're not going to be so lucky with the next generation. I really didn't want it to end this way, or this soon, but even in the best case scenario I don't envision Rodgers playing more than one more season in a Packer uniform.

I don't know if you absolutely have to have a truly great quarterback to win the Lombadi, but obviously it sure makes it easier to build the rest of a team around. I never saw Eli Manning as a great quarterback, but he's got twice as many rings as Rodgers. He's just a very good QB who takes his game to a whole different level when the season is on the line, and refuses to let the other team beat him. He's exactly .500 (117-117) in the regular season, but .667 in the postseason - 8-4. Kind of the anti-Rodgers. Which one would you have rather had? Rodgers, who probably has the greatest pure skill set of any passer who ever played the game and made every regular season a thrilling ride full of magical plays, or the guy who just gutted it out all season long and turned decent teams into champions as many times as Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers together have done in the last 30 years?

I think I'd rather have had Manning. He didn't make the playoffs as often, but he won the whole thing 1 out of every 3 times he did. That's really remarkable. Rodgers and Favre each won it 1 time out of every 11. It's just really hard to look at those numbers and not feel very disappointed, and frustrated for what could have been.

[MadtownPacker]

Your opinion is welcome. If you would like to spout off your own stupidity and come to FYI and defend it I look forward to robust discussion. However in the football section keep your own ignorant, non fact based political opinions to yourself. Or you can be like HH, state something we aren't allowed to discuss as a fact when you are horribly wrong and uninformed and then hope Mad stops me and others from exposing your ignorance.

Sigh, we were doing so good too.

You have definitely gone off the rails on this one. he did not say anything politcal. Rodgers has said everyone is out too get him so it kept it pretty clean, something you and all your playmates are not able to do it seems.

Now you attacking him after making a really good post what’s up with that? Also you seem to be trying to control what the situation is here that’s not what you’re trying to do correct? Because that would be my thing to do wouldn’t you agree? As far as HH goes he gets to do what he wants because I say so. Is me doing whatever not OK with you?

[Sparkey]

I think some people don't understand void years either. Those void years are only there to help a team adjust the cap while that player is still there. For example, a guy gets a 3 year deal with 2 void years. When that 3rd year ends, those 2 voidable years are all accelerated the the teams 3rd year cap hit.

Look at NO this year. 70 million over the cap. They are going to have to gut the team of talent and might be a partial explanation as to why Payton retired.

[texaspackerbacker]

Can you just "tear up" a contract and redo it? Like... is Aaron's 2022 numbers locked in, or can they be changed via an "extension" even though technically the terms of the new contract wouldn't begin until 2023?

I assume you can "tear up" the contract because they did last year to remove a year.

Assuming you *can* do the above, I put together this quick table in about 10 minutes.

Z - cut him and save 15M

Baktiari - Convert 3.2M base to 1M w/ rest becoming signing bonus (2.2M savings this year), Convert the 9.5M roster bonus into signing bonus (3.17M savings this year), save total of 5.3M

Rodgers - Redo contract to be a 3 year deal w/ minimum base salary and the rest as a signing bonus. 37M per year. 
	1M base salary per year
	108M signing bonus
	Use 5 void years
	13.5 signing bonus per year (5 years of carrying 13.5 dead cap, or they could do a retirement contract and redo it so the piper is paid over a year or two)

	Rodgers cap number is 14.5M this year

	So reducing his cap number from 48M to 13.5M is a saving of 35M

	Let's say they did 2 void years (for the post-Rodgers rebuild)

	1M base salary per year
	108M signing bonus
	Use 2 void years
	21.6 signing bonus per year

	Rodgers cap number this year is 22.M


Preston - Sign to a 2 year extension, 11M per year (hopefully realistic)
	- Convert 3.4M of roster bonus to signing bonus (save 1.13M this year)
    - Redo this year's salary from 8.35M to 1.35M and convert 7M to signing bonus (Save 2.3M this year)
    - Save total of ~3.5M without sacrificing future very much at all


Davante - Sign to 3 year deal worth 75M
	a. 1M salary per year
	b. 24M signing bonus per year
	c. 5 void years
	Cap hit per year is 9 per year

They can easily get under the cap and bring most folks back without totally blowing it up or FUBARing the cap too badly. It will be painful for a year or two post rodgers, but that's it. No biggie and frankly helps the rebuild.

This is good work, CMI. Did you do it, or just find it some place? The haters aren't gonna like a commitment like this to Rodgers, but it's exactly like I've been saying, all things are possible if you handle the cap right.

[RashanGary]

This is good work, CMI. Did you do it, or just find it some place? The haters aren't gonna like a commitment like this to Rodgers, but it's exactly like I've been saying, all things are possible if you handle the cap right.

CMI hit it. They’re going to be fine. It’s gonna be a couple lost players like Z and probably Rasul and Cobb. Maybe one more, I don’t know.

But the OL will be improved.

Bakhtiari over Yosh and Jenkins
Jenkins over Runyan
Meyers better than rookie Meyers
Runyan better than rookie Newman
Yosh or Turner at RT

Obviously the OL is going to be much better.


Also the secondary will be improved.

Stokes over rookie Stokes
Jaire over Rasul and King
Savage should be improved
Amos should stay the same

The secondary is obviously better in 2022.


There is no rebuild. Mark it down. And they should be able to keep Adams. The cap is going way up in the coming years. We’re fine.

[Bretsky]

This is good work, CMI. Did you do it, or just find it some place? The haters aren't gonna like a commitment like this to Rodgers, but it's exactly like I've been saying, all things are possible if you handle the cap right.

Agree this is great stuff as I like the voidable years

But you havents addressed Devante Adams, who commented last week he deserves to be the highest paid WR

Or Campbell, or many of the others

We're still going to have to lose some elite talent iMO

[RashanGary]

2022 can be a super bowl season with some health luck. Maybe we just have a really lucky year and win it. You can’t get too down because of one playoff loss. The odds of winning the SB are slim but that doesn’t mean you stop trying after a near miss.

[texaspackerbacker]

Agree this is great stuff as I like the voidable years

But you havents addressed Devante Adams, who commented last week he deserves to be the highest paid WR

Or Campbell, or many of the others

We're still going to have to lose some elite talent iMO

As I understand what he posted, it doesn't take into consideration any cap increase - which is likely to be large. They could do something similar with Adams on a slightly lesser scale than with Rodgers. I already posted an example of that in one of these threads. I don't think they need to lose Douglas or Campbell or anybody else of substance other than Z. Smith. They shouldn't pay Cobb $7M, but they ought to be able to bring him back for way less - a couple million cap hit maybe.

[call_me_ishmael]

I put that together.

The big caveat is we don't have a big time super rich owner, so the money aspect of it is relevant. This strategy is cheating the cap but still paying lots of money out *now*. If they don't cook the cap, they would lose players, etc but they'd spend a lot less money now.

Of course, over a 5-10 year timeline, it will all balance out because the cap is what it is and as long as you spend close to the cap, it's the same amount of money out of pocket whether the cap is cooked or not.

So the tl;dr is it comes down to A) what the team wants to do and B) are they willing to be out extra cash flow this year while saving cash flow in the coming years down the road (fewer signing bonuses)

[red]

CMI hit it. They’re going to be fine. It’s gonna be a couple lost players like Z and probably Rasul and Cobb. Maybe one more, I don’t know.

But the OL will be improved.

Bakhtiari over Yosh and Jenkins
Jenkins over Runyan
Meyers better than rookie Meyers
Runyan better than rookie Newman
Yosh or Turner at RT

Obviously the OL is going to be much better.


Also the secondary will be improved.

Stokes over rookie Stokes
Jaire over Rasul and King
Savage should be improved
Amos should stay the same

The secondary is obviously better in 2022.


There is no rebuild. Mark it down. And they should be able to keep Adams. The cap is going way up in the coming years. We’re fine.

yeah he did a lot of work. too bad all his numbers and math are incorrect

[red]

As I understand what he posted, it doesn't take into consideration any cap increase - which is likely to be large. They could do something similar with Adams on a slightly lesser scale than with Rodgers. I already posted an example of that in one of these threads. I don't think they need to lose Douglas or Campbell or anybody else of substance other than Z. Smith. They shouldn't pay Cobb $7M, but they ought to be able to bring him back for way less - a couple million cap hit maybe.

he also didn't take into account how the cap actually works

[Sparkey]

Signing bonus prorates over 5 years max.