What is the Main Reason GB has not won a Super Bowl in the past 12 years ?

[Fritz]

I went with the highest on the orgy chart.

My transcontinental thought is that we lost some key years with Ted in cognitive decline and no one on the tiller to get top-of-the-league drafting and manage QB and head coach's head games. There were a lot of repeated frustrating instincts that got worse and worse over the seasons. Mike turtles on playcalling, so Aaron takes it upon himself to chuck the ball over the mountains. I wish there were someone who could have gotten them to change their approaches.

Also i believe (without any good stats to back me up) we overachieve on our OL drafting and development and underachieve on our DL drafting and development.

Lots of good posts here, but I think this one hits on one of the big reasons that, over time, the Packers were not more competetive in terms of the playoffs: Ted Thompson's cognitive decline. APB and a couple others are crass in simply saying Ted sucked, but his cognitive decline over the last few years led to the issues you mention above. As Bobble I think points out, in individual games - like the 2014 Seattle loss - it's not on Ted, but in terms of organization, his cognitive decline really caused problems.

Which leads me to my bigger point: that the real responsibility rests with Mark Murphy. He's the person who really ought to have gently encouraged Ted to go back to scouting much earlier than he did. He's the one who's supposed to see how the GM is doing and to make corrections if there is a major problem - and there was. And it was not that hard to see, if you look back over some of the Packerrat threads of those years.

So I blame him. He chose stability and not making any changes when it was becoming readily apparent TT was no longer at the top of his game. And to win in the nfl, most everyone, especially the GM, has to be at the top of his game.

So I vote for Mark Murphy.

[run pMc]

I actually don't blame Gute. TT had some bad drafts that set them back, but they have had plenty of talent with one recent exception.
The WR talent went dry after they stopped picking WRs higher - Adams was the last Day 2 pick until Amari. I think with the how the FA market is for WRs you have to draft them constantly, just like you do with secondary and trenches.

All that aside, they have had enough talent to get to the NFCCG multiple times with M3 and MLF, including two in a row with MLF. ST cost them against SF, and even this year people were talking about this defense being Top 5 in talent.

What jumps out to me are individual games, or moments in those games... which falls on either the coaches or the players. They have failed to rise to the occasion in clutch moments. Game 17 vs. DET, win and you're in, and the visiting team is the winner. Not blaming just Rodgers, it's the whole team.

I still think it's really really hard to reach and win a Super Bowl. So much has to go right for it to happen in terms of injuries, unheralded players stepping up, star players playing like stars, coaches pushing the right buttons, lucky bounces, etc.

[texaspackerbacker]

“If you ain’t first, you’re last.” - Ricky Bobby

Sometimes playoffs heartbreaks fuck with the mind moreso than missing the playoffs altogether. Sometimes it is better to tank a season for the rights to draft a difference maker than to lose in the NFC Championship game.

That being said, Thompson’s incompetence at upgrading the D prevented the Packers from winning another ring during Butte’s prime years. Perry instead of hip hop safety Harrison Smith. Peprah, Jennings and Dix all couldn’t hold Collins’ jockstrap. Claymaker was forced to play ILB. Gunter covered Julio Jones.

Gutekunst’s refusal to draft diva rock catchers with premium picks, especially Metcalf and/or Brown prevented the Packers from winning it all during Butte’s “back nine.” Furthermore, the German Shepherd failed miserably to acquire OBJ. And, making matters worse, German Shepherd couldn’t draft a tight end worth a fuck.

Suffice it to say, Polar Bear and German Shepherd are the perpetrators behind the shameful nonexistence of a glorious Butte Dynasty.

You make a good case for the GMs to blame/deficient talent in some positions. I still say a lot of that is luck - blame based on hindsight. I wasn't gonna vote in this poll, but now I might for the GMs.

The bottom line, though, is that it's the SEASON - the RECORD that is important, not the damn Super Bowl. Today, just like every Wednesday all season, the game is history, rapidly getting out of people's minds whether you're for the winner or the loser or in our case, neither. Another week or two, and people will have a hard time remembering who won the damn game or even played in it. Going 13-4 or 14-3 or whatever is far better and more significant than one great day then mostly forgotten - which is the Super Bowl.

[The Shadow]

Defense.

[call_me_ishmael]

But in your last sentence you negate your point. The eagles had superior talent and still lost. And they made a couple moves like Quinn, while the Chefs made none.

They lost true, but at least they got there. Can't win if you don't get to the game and the Packers never get there. I disagree the Chiefs didn't make any moves. They totally revamped their OL and DL a few years back after losing the super bowl. In addition, Frank Clark was a trade, Tyrann Mathieu was an FA, Frank Brown was a trade, etc etc.

The other thing worth mentioning is the Chiefs just drafted better. Instead of taking Myers who sorta sucks, they took Creed Humprey who was an second team all-pro. I don't know the inside and out of their roster but they aggressively went after players that would help them. Granted, they had Mahomes on a rookie deal so they had flexibility.

It's not as simple as either of us are making it out to be, but I think the stark reality is a combination of ARod choking paired with they were just outmanned come playoff time. The GMs just weren't good enough outside of 2010 and 2014.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You make a good case for the GMs to blame/deficient talent in some positions. I still say a lot of that is luck - blame based on hindsight. I wasn't gonna vote in this poll, but now I might for the GMs.

The bottom line, though, is that it's the SEASON - the RECORD that is important, not the damn Super Bowl. Today, just like every Wednesday all season, the game is history, rapidly getting out of people's minds whether you're for the winner or the loser or in our case, neither. Another week or two, and people will have a hard time remembering who won the damn game or even played in it. Going 13-4 or 14-3 or whatever is far better and more significant than one great day then mostly forgotten - which is the Super Bowl.

What kind of twisted logic are you chirping? According to your logic, going 17-0 in the regular season and laying an egg in the playoffs is superior to winning the Super Bowl with, say, a 9-8 regular season record.

Trust me, no one here, except maybe you, remembers the Packers going 15-1 in 2011.

But we all have not forgotten 2010: Packers won in the City of Racist Italians in week 1 for the first time in eons; Donald Lee’s fumble in Washington costed J-Mike his season; Butte stupidly did not slide at Detroit, costing Pack that game and the next one against New England (although Flynn played well); D-Jax’s walk off punt-6 allowed Pack to control its so-called destiny; The Lost City of Atlanta suffered its biggest defeat since Sherman marched there and burned it to the ground; Butte and Claymaker rising the lame WWE Championship belt. Etc.

In the end, it’s all about the ring.

[bobblehead]

So the one case if the center proves they draft better? I won't delve into myers being a ZBS center vs. creed being a power gap center. I'll just ask you to compare sky moore to christian watson.

[Joemailman]

The issue as I see it is that the Packers have invested much more on the defensive side of the football than on offense with relatively little to show for it. Of the 13 1st round draft picks since 2011, 11 were on defense and 2 on offense.

Of the 14 2nd round picks, 6 were on defense and 8 on offense. In addition, most of the key FA additions were on defense. Whether the biggest issue has been talent evaluation or coaching is hard to say. I don't think it skews heavily in one direction.

[Sparkey]

In the McCarthy years, it goes down to the head coach. But, not because of conservative play calling. It goes to the HC because of his inability to hold coaches accountable. Dom Capers should have never lasted as long as he did in GB. Also, the crap coaches trotted out on special teams for years on end is utterly unfathomable. The difference between winning and losing in the NFL is so small that coaches can make all the difference.

[call_me_ishmael]

So the one case if the center proves they draft better? I won't delve into myers being a ZBS center vs. creed being a power gap center. I'll just ask you to compare sky moore to christian watson.

Sure, Watson is better. What about the rest of the draft picks? I broke it down the other day. Gooter is largely sucking at drafting aside from R1. He needs to do better. Let's frame the discussion like this? What teams have worse GMs than Gooter? Shoot, if we're being honest, I think he's in the bottom half certainly.

[ThunderDan]

Sure, Watson is better. What about the rest of the draft picks? I broke it down the other day. Gooter is largely sucking at drafting aside from R1. He needs to do better. Let's frame the discussion like this? What teams have worse GMs than Gooter? Shoot, if we're being honest, I think he's in the bottom half certainly.

Before you make silly blanket statements like this you need to look at every team's roster and draft. The average NFL player doesn't make it 3 full seasons. I remember a long time ago trying to show how great TT was at drafting verses other teams. I gave up after looking at 3 NFL rosters. NFL rosters churn constantly. You just gotta hope you can catch 2 or 3 draft picks a year and that can be the difference between the Super Bowl and 8-9.

[call_me_ishmael]

Before you make silly blanket statements like this you need to look at every team's roster and draft. The average NFL player doesn't make it 3 full seasons. I remember a long time ago trying to show how great TT was at drafting verses other teams. I gave up after looking at 3 NFL rosters. NFL rosters churn constantly. You just gotta hope you can catch 2 or 3 draft picks a year and that can be the difference between the Super Bowl and 8-9.

I agree but I don't think Gooter is even close to 2-3 contributors per 7 picks. It is closer to 1 to 1.5.

[Fritz]

The issue as I see it is that the Packers have invested much more on the defensive side of the football than on offense with relatively little to show for it. Of the 13 1st round draft picks since 2011, 11 were on defense and 2 on offense.

Of the 14 2nd round picks, 6 were on defense and 8 on offense. In addition, most of the key FA additions were on defense. Whether the biggest issue has been talent evaluation or coaching is hard to say. I don't think it skews heavily in one direction.

I suppose you could break down the picks themselves and see who panned out and who did not. But you'd think that at least part of this is coaching. But maybe not. Maybe the guys they picked did not pan out often enough.

Damarious Randall and Quentin Rollins in 2015 were two of the worst. Kevin King, not so good. Josh Jones blew chunks. Montravious Adams in the third round, a big nothing-burger. Kenny Clark was a very good pick. Ha Ha Clinton-Dicks flamed out after about two years, a big mystery there. Datone Jones sucked ass. Nick Perry was pretty okay but not great, Jerel Worthy also sucked ass, ala Datone Jones. Casey Heyward was good but they let him walk. Mike Neal never emerged as a difference-maker. Morgan Burnett, a third-rounder, was good. BJ Raji was good but only for about two or three years. Clay Matthews was great.Pat Lee from 2008 is well, not remembered, so clearly he sucked. Justin Harrell never did get un-injured so he never did a thing. AJ Hawk was a disappointment as the #5 overall pick, at least to me. Nick Collins was great.

Hmm. Having looked them all up, I'd have to conclude Ted's acumen in drafting defensive players was less than stellar.

[King Friday]

My thought is that the GM position is most responsible. While the talent on the roster has been better than most in the league on a consistent basis, there always seemed to be a gaping hole somewhere that did not get plugged over the past decade. Ted refused to utilize free agency, and Gute has not proven himself to be as capable of a drafter as Ted. Neither were poor performers, but you need to be very good over a period of time to build a championship roster.

[texaspackerbacker]

What kind of twisted logic are you chirping? According to your logic, going 17-0 in the regular season and laying an egg in the playoffs is superior to winning the Super Bowl with, say, a 9-8 regular season record.

Trust me, no one here, except maybe you, remembers the Packers going 15-1 in 2011.

But we all have not forgotten 2010: Packers won in the City of Racist Italians in week 1 for the first time in eons; Donald Lee’s fumble in Washington costed J-Mike his season; Butte stupidly did not slide at Detroit, costing Pack that game and the next one against New England (although Flynn played well); D-Jax’s walk off punt-6 allowed Pack to control its so-called destiny; The Lost City of Atlanta suffered its biggest defeat since Sherman marched there and burned it to the ground; Butte and Claymaker rising the lame WWE Championship belt. Etc.

In the end, it’s all about the ring.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm kinda hazy on any of that - water over the dam IMO. Hell yeah, I'd take 17 wonderful satisfying wins and just one shitty loss over 9 satisfying wins plus maybe several in the playoffs but 8 miserable losses. And yeah, 15-1 was great. Fuck the damn ring.