WIDE UNFILTERED.....some interesting info during a boring offseason

[bobblehead]

Woodson was pretty good with the Raiders after he left, making the pro bowl in his final (age 39) season. But I don't have any real issues with the way the Packers handled things. Better to cut bait a year early than a year late.

Woodson was not a Pro Bowl player at 39 regardless if he was named to the team. Jordy's last season was 63 739 11.7 3. I believe he probably cracks 1000 with Rodgers, but after one season with the Raiders he was done.

As for Adams, it would have been nice if he hadn't gotten all butt hurt because we were supposed to show more loyalty than he did (Although he signed and was offered REALLY good deals through his career, but dammit, Gutes should have offered it a year earlier....my feelings are hurt.) Yea, he is still studly, but him leaving was HIS choice. He wanted a ton of locked in money with a year left at age 28. I would have made him play out half the season as well to be honest. Look at the numbers for WR after age 30 (which Adams is right now, 31 in December).

I do dynasty football so we really look at age a lot. A quick search turned this up from 2021:

Top 5 WRs age 30+
AJ Green, 718 yards
Thielen, 686
Beasley, 640
M Jones, 624
E Sanders, 606

WRs turning 30 next year:
D Adams
K Allen
Lockett
Hopkins
Woods
OBJ
Landry

Top WR 30+ had 718 yards. D wanted a contract that would have paid him 20M plus (signing bonus locking it in for 3 years) that kicked in at age 29 (and he turned 30 In December). Moreover he wanted it a year before his current deal was up. Those are the deals bad GMs make....like the Raiders. Now there are some exceptions, but for the most part WRs really decline right around 30. Sorry if that means a fan favorite can't get a bunch of money, but in most cases teams are simply better off developing a younger guy who adds ST value.

[run pMc]

Top WR 30+ had 718 yards. D wanted a contract that would have paid him 20M plus (signing bonus locking it in for 3 years) that kicked in at age 29 (and he turned 30 In December). Moreover he wanted it a year before his current deal was up. Those are the deals bad GMs make....like the Raiders. Now there are some exceptions, but for the most part WRs really decline right around 30. Sorry if that means a fan favorite can't get a bunch of money, but in most cases teams are simply better off developing a younger guy who adds ST value.

Yeah, kind of goes with my opinion that except for QBs giving a player a 3rd multi-year contract is playing with salary cap fire.
Getting picks for Adams vs. keeping him on that contract was a good move by Gute, not having young developed WRs who could step right in vs. having to play rookies was NOT.

I'm not surprised Adams had a good year last year, he'll probably be good this year too but after that I don't know. His elite traits are winning at the line and separation in general, I'm not sure how well that ages...better than pure speed, I'd think.

[call_me_ishmael]

People get old and different life stages. Let's see how Giannis is at 35+. My guess is he won't be buddy buddy with the 18 year olds anymore.

I think Wilde is basically right that ARod would still be here if they resigned Adams. They screwed the pooch on that one.

Money aside - you don't let special players out the door - period. Adam is a much bigger mistake than say Peppers, Woodson, Nelson, etc because he was ~30 years old or something and an all-pro. The other dudes were quite old - although I probably would have kept both Peppers and Woodson another year or two and moved on from Nelson.

Good discussion here.

[call_me_ishmael]

Better to cut bait a year early than a year late.

I disagree that you do this with special players.

[sharpe1027]

People get old and different life stages. Let's see how Giannis is at 35+. My guess is he won't be buddy buddy with the 18 year olds anymore.

I think Wilde is basically right that ARod would still be here if they resigned Adams. They screwed the pooch on that one.

Money aside - you don't let special players out the door - period. Adam is a much bigger mistake than say Peppers, Woodson, Nelson, etc because he was ~30 years old or something and an all-pro. The other dudes were quite old - although I probably would have kept both Peppers and Woodson another year or two and moved on from Nelson.

Good discussion here.

Rodgers was showing signs he wanted out before Adams left. Also, you don't have to be buddy buddy with everyone to be a good teammate.

You don't get trade value for crappy players. You face a choice of getting value now but being worse short term or risking having an aging player on a bloated contract and less young talent.

You can make a mistake by trading a player too soon, but you can also be worse off by keeping a player too long, even a special player.

I tend to agree it's better to restock when you can get value than to wait too long.

[MadScientist]

I disagree that you do this with special players.

By definition, players kept a year too long are no longer special. But they usually have a contract that pays them for being special. That is something that can hurt a team for several years.

[run pMc]

Some have argued Rodgers was kept a year too long and that they could have gotten a fortune from DEN had he been traded instead of Russ. I'm not sure about that; Rodgers is much older and coming off an MVP season with a shiny new extension.
It doesn't take much to fall from 'special player' status, especially when age happens.

Losing Adams hurt the team last year, but the offense's dependence on Adams was an issue before that (see: most recent home playoff loss to SF). Is it better to have one elite level (top 5) WR and then scrubs, or 2 top 20 WRs? I think the offense was best when they had multiple options... if a defense shuts down one player, another one steps up. Gives you better stability in case of injuries, contract issues, etc., plus they likely don't cost as much against your salary cap. WR salaries have exploded and it makes sense to constantly draft new ones. I don't know if the salaries are going to come back to earth a little bit like RBs have. Not saying they don't deserve to be paid, just think it's difficult to pay top dollar for WR and QB (I'm assuming you have a QB on a high salary).

[texaspackerbacker]

If you believe the media shit, there wasn't much choice about pulling the plug on Rodgers. If there had been a choice, it would have been bonehead stupid trading him. I'm betting he would have bounced back from the injury and had a great year for the Packers this year and that he will have a big year for the Jets too although not necessarily reflected in the record, as the Jets are way short of the Packers in terms of a supporting cast.

Whether losing Adams was the primary cause is kinda a chicken and egg situation. I tend to think Adams had a hunch or inside knowledge about Rodgers not staying long term and wanted out for that reason more than the other way around.

[Bretsky]

If you believe the media shit, there wasn't much choice about pulling the plug on Rodgers. If there had been a choice, it would have been bonehead stupid trading him. I'm betting he would have bounced back from the injury and had a great year for the Packers this year and that he will have a big year for the Jets too although not necessarily reflected in the record, as the Jets are way short of the Packers in terms of a supporting cast.

Whether losing Adams was the primary cause is kinda a chicken and egg situation. I tend to think Adams had a hunch or inside knowledge about Rodgers not staying long term and wanted out for that reason more than the other way around.

If you believe GB wanted Adams to stay it was the motherload of all F'ck ups not to close the deal the year before.

At the end of the season Adams was in the GTFO (get the f'ck out) Mode. He was bitter, hurt, and jaded

And it was COMPLETLY SHITTY of GUTEBAG to leak it to the press that GB offered more than Oakland. Adams was good as gone; that was kinds dirty pool when he should have just shut the F'ck up

[texaspackerbacker]

Supposedly the Packers offered him more money than the Raiders, but he chose to leave anyway. WHY do you say it was shitty that Gutekunst let it be known the Packers offered him more? Assuming it's true, that makes Adams the villain, not to mention stupid, so it was damn appropriate to say it - if true.

[Bretsky]

Supposedly the Packers offered him more money than the Raiders, but he chose to leave anyway. WHY do you say it was shitty that Gutekunst let it be known the Packers offered him more? Assuming it's true, that makes Adams the villain, not to mention stupid, so it was damn appropriate to say it - if true.

Tex, they had burned their bridges with Adams; he was 100 percent gone before the offer was made. Maybe it was genuine; maybe it was not.

And then they leaked it to the press so Gutebag could try to look better after losing his Stud WR

[texaspackerbacker]

You say that like you KNOW hahahahaha. Other than shit spewed by media pukes, what makes you think the Packers alienated Adams? It makes more sense to take Adams at face value - the reasons he SAID he took less money to go to the Raiders. Yeah, leaking that made Gutekunst look better - as he should have looked, given the facts, at least if his words were true.

[Bretsky]

You say that like you KNOW hahahahaha. Other than shit spewed by media pukes, what makes you think the Packers alienated Adams? It makes more sense to take Adams at face value - the reasons he SAID he took less money to go to the Raiders. Yeah, leaking that made Gutekunst look better - as he should have looked, given the facts, at least if his words were true.

it's common knowledge around here Tex. You can choose to be in another world far away from reality if you choose to . I'm not going to close my eyes, say lalala and ignore everything that's going on.

[run pMc]

It's been covered by sportswriters and confirmed by Adams himself that GB essentially offered what LV was willing to pay. Adams wanted to be closer to the West Coast and his family, and he was still very close with his college QB Carr.
Adams is a pretty standup guy with the press and hasn't indicated he has bad feelings towards Gute or GB per se. It's possible they low balled him or wanted to delay contract talks the year before, but in his final year with GB I know the front office wanted to keep him and made a real attempt to do so.

Don't believe us? Go ask Adams, or Tom Silverstein or Matt Schneidmann.

"Media pukes" are the people who provide this information. You're insulting the people who provide you with it, that's bad manners akin to insulting the chef at the restaurant where you're dining.
The Internet itself is a medium. If you don't like "media", stay away from TV, radio, newspapers, and the internet. If you can't do that, stop being naive and clicking anything with Packer in the title and stick to reputable sources

[texaspackerbacker]

Yet Bretsky says it's "common knowledge" otherwise. I agree, why not take Adams at his own word.

And hell yeah, I hate media pukes for a LOT of reasons - not limited to the Packers, not limited to football, not even limited to sports - I dare not say more on that topic hahahaha. But in this case, all they did was apparently accurately portray what Adams said - no "he said this, but we know better and we think he meant this" which so often happens. It's Bretsky with his "common knowledge" thing doing that here.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was like you say, run pMc, they lowballed him at first or tried to get him at a discount to keep the team together. Then they came through with the offer to meet or beat what the Raiders were offering. If that was the case, Gutekunst was merely playing the game as a GM is supposed to do, and if that pissed off Adams, he, Adams, is the villain and/or should have known better. And it's weird to blame Gutekunst for merely stating what he did for the record. He just ended up making the best of a bad situation. He probably was pretty much in that same situation with the Rodgers mess - once Rodgers made that fateful statement on McAfee.

So here we are, having potentially the best team in the NFL - other than at QB, and if lightning strikes a third time/Vince lobbies God hard enough, and Love turns out to be quality, everything is fine. If not, we put up with mediocrity for at least a few years.