Why all the "LOVE"?

[Joemailman]

The all of the receivers regressed this year. That says the coaching was piss poor. If Love can't trust his receivers to do what they are supposed to do, that will screw up the entire offense.

Yep. This was Ryan Mahaffey's 1st year as WR coach. He was the asst. OL coach before that. I wouldn't put down too many roots in Green Bay if I were him.

[Joemailman]

I am just not sure blaming coaches is the right idea. Drops have very little to do with coaching and if you say, "well the coaches need to do more catching drills." You are ignorant of your understanding of professional football.

It wasn't just drops. On one of INT's Sunday, MLF said the route should have been run 5 yards deeper. (This does not totally absolve Love). But when an entire position group seems to digress, you have to at least look at the coaching.

[Deputy Nutz]

Kraft had the best season of improvement as a receiver, he basically almost matched the production of him and Musgrave in 2023.

Reed had 9 less catches in 2024, but he also had 18 less targets. his catch % went up, and his success rate also went up. He caught 2 less TDs in 2024
Watson played in 6 more games and caught 1 more ball in 2024, but had 200 more yards receiving, but 3 less TDS.
Wicks caught the same number of balls this year for 150 less yards and was targeted almost 20 times more in 2024, his catch % went down from 67% to 51%.
Melton also had a regression this year considering he was active the entire season, and he wasn't active for the last 5 games. His catches were cut in half in 2024.
Doubs played in 4 less games, he had 70 less yards, 4 less touchdowns, and 13 less catches. His catch % was better, along with his success rate in 2024
Malik Heath caught 5 less balls in 2024, but also had only 13 targets in 2024. His success rate was 69% in 2024 and he caught 2 TDs.

This is a ridiculously young room so you are going to have to regression. Everyone on this forum wanted Adams gone after his 2nd year because he had a slim regression. I think Reed has the ability to be the #1 guy as he has been for the past two years. The Packers need to target him more often if he is consistently getting open and on contested catches he has to hang on to the ball.

[MadScientist]

I was not counting Kraft as TEs have a different position coach than WRs.

[George Cumby]

Kraft had the best season of improvement as a receiver, he basically almost matched the production of him and Musgrave in 2023.

Reed had 9 less catches in 2024, but he also had 18 less targets. his catch % went up, and his success rate also went up. He caught 2 less TDs in 2024
Watson played in 6 more games and caught 1 more ball in 2024, but had 200 more yards receiving, but 3 less TDS.
Wicks caught the same number of balls this year for 150 less yards and was targeted almost 20 times more in 2024, his catch % went down from 67% to 51%.
Melton also had a regression this year considering he was active the entire season, and he wasn't active for the last 5 games. His catches were cut in half in 2024.
Doubs played in 4 less games, he had 70 less yards, 4 less touchdowns, and 13 less catches. His catch % was better, along with his success rate in 2024
Malik Heath caught 5 less balls in 2024, but also had only 13 targets in 2024. His success rate was 69% in 2024 and he caught 2 TDs.

This is a ridiculously young room so you are going to have to regression. Everyone on this forum wanted Adams gone after his 2nd year because he had a slim regression. I think Reed has the ability to be the #1 guy as he has been for the past two years. The Packers need to target him more often if he is consistently getting open and on contested catches he has to hang on to the ball.

Reed's numbers this year compare very favorably to Adams' second year numbers. Reed's gonna' ball next year.

Also, I remember both Mad and I telling people to chill out about Adams.

[Bretsky]

Kraft has really improved, but I don't buy Reed improved one bit. He simply wasn't getting open much this year. I am find dumping the WR coach as well as our fake OC, whatever the heck his role is. He was a great OL coach and that is probably where he belongs

[King Friday]

I am just not sure blaming coaches is the right idea. Drops have very little to do with coaching and if you say, "well the coaches need to do more catching drills." You are ignorant of your understanding of professional football.

I think it is pretty clear from the play on the field that the coaches damn well need to do a lot more. The naivety to think that only the players are responsible for improvement is laughable.

[Bretsky]

It is both/ And don't forget about Gutebag as well

[Joemailman]

Reed's numbers this year compare very favorably to Adams' second year numbers. Reed's gonna' ball next year.

Also, I remember both Mad and I telling people to chill out about Adams.

Reed may be fine, but the comparison to Adams' 2nd year isn't very apt. Adams was hurt week 3, missed the next 3 weeks and was never really 100%. Reed played in all games, but had 8 games with fewer than 30 receiving yards. Needs to be more consistent if he's going to be #1.

[King Friday]

Reed will never become anything close to Adams. Simply using numbers to compare then misses the physicality and size Adams brought to the field, which Reed will never have.

[George Cumby]

Reed may be fine, but the comparison to Adams' 2nd year isn't very apt. Adams was hurt week 3, missed the next 3 weeks and was never really 100%. Reed played in all games, but had 8 games with fewer than 30 receiving yards. Needs to be more consistent if he's going to be #1.

Fair points.

[Bretsky]

Reed will never become anything close to Adams. Simply using numbers to compare then misses the physicality and size Adams brought to the field, which Reed will never have.

I thought maybe Reed would become Greg Jennings. I don't anymore

[Fritz]

It is both/ And don't forget about Gutebag as well

It's all kinda hard to figure out. Last year, most of us - and apparantly MLF - saw the defense as the primary culprit. So out goes Joe Barely, and in comes Halfley. Guter remakes the safety position. I would say that most of us think the defense was pretty well improved, despite issues with a lack of pass rush. But all in all, the defense was not the problem.

Then there was the kicking problem. And after flailing about at the beginning of the year, they found their McAnus. Problem solved. Way better than last year. The rest of ST was meh, like the year before. And Whelan had a very good season this year, improving on last year.

So that leaves the offense. We worried that Aaron Jones's departure would really hurt, but Jacobs was probably their best offensive player this year. So it's not the running back. The offensive line seemed okay - not great, but not a dumpster fire. About like last year, I'd say. Maybe even a bit better.

So now we're down to pass-catchers and the QB. By the end of last year, we loved the WR room. Now we're down on them - the drops, specifically. And Watson and Doubs's injury problems. Yet on the whole, that same group performed pretty well at the end of last season. Not sure what happened there, exactly. Tucker Kraft improved this year - but Musgrave, even after recovering from (another) injury, was invisible.

And that leaves Love. Whom we also all thought ended last season playing really well (well, maybe not Skin). But he ended the season badly, like a skid on your favorite underwear.

We thought, mostly, that after last season he was "The Guy." He clearly seemed to be capable. But he started this year and ended this year looking meh.

Given how much better the defense (and the kicker) were this year than last, the failure has to go to the WR's and the QB, and the guy who calls the plays and coaches the team.

[Deputy Nutz]

Holy Shit, the team went 11-6. If they beat the Bears in a meaningless week 18 game I think all of your perspectives might be a little different. They simply do not have the roster of the Eagles. Gute has not had the home run first round picks that he has needed to make dramatic improvements to this roster. He has some nice players, and some misses in the first round that you can't exactly have and then not solidify your roster with free agents and trades. This was the first year Gute recognized his mistakes and fixed them, although it was at the kicker position, but he did what he had to do when he signed McManus. He is going to have to do more of that at defensive end, and possibly at Corner and the offensive line. He may trade for a receiver but there isn't a lot out there that is hitting free agency that I like.

Van Ness was a project, hell he never started a game in college, I don't think you can pick him with the 13th pick in the draft if the first place. You need a day 1 starter or at least an impact contributor. Stokes got banged up and it was a real setback for him and the franchise for multiple years. I don't have a problem with the Stokes pick, you can't predict those kinds of injuries. Walker was a reach with the 22nd pick, he was never a full time starter at Georgia as they usually played multiple linebackers. Nkobe Dean was the more impactful college player for the Bulldogs that year. He didn't have the size/athleticism ratio that Walker has, but he is a much more instinctive and knowledgeable football player that went much later in the 2022 draft. Devonte Wyatt again was not the best Georgia Defensive lineman in the 2022 draft, but it was a need position at the time for the Packers. Wyatt isn't as powerful up front as you want in a defensive tackle, but he has shown some quickness and pass rush with 12 sacks in 3 years. I would like him to stay healthy because i think it dramatically impacts his play. I still think we need much more for him to make the 2022 draft a success considering there were two first round picks in that draft. As for the 2024 draft, Morgan has been a non factor for the majority of the season, he has been injured but he was injured in college as well.

Overall the 2021 draft turned out pretty poor for the Packers. Stokes - Injured, Josh Myers - consistently average, Amari Rogers - Cut after 1 season, Royce Newman - Backup, Shemar-Jean Charles - Cut???, Cole Van Lannen - Cut after year 1, Isaiah McDuffie - Still on the team, Kyllin Hill - Cut. That draft kills you in 2024. Yes Stokes, Myers, and McDuffie were all starters but not because the Packers really wanted to start them.

So the Packers haven't had a first round pick make an All-Pro or even a Pro Bowl team since 2019 draft of Rashan Gary (Pro Bowl 2024). Jaire in 2018 was the right pick, again injuries are a thing in this game, but he was the real deal for several years.

Overall coaches are responsible, I get it. I don't think the Packers staff deserves the emotional beating you are all giving them considering the age of their roster, and how that roster has been pieced together. No kidding Reed and Watson are the most dynamic receivers because they were drafted way ahead of the other guys in the room. Reed has played two season, his production for a second round pick is more than satisfactory. Watson can't stay healthy which is unfortunate because they were both really good picks in the second round. Doubs was a 4th rounder in 2022 you are getting way more out of him than expected. When you show me a Receiver room with multiple day 1 or day 2 picks plus free agent additions then we can really break down the coaching as of right now you really don't know what you have with this group.

Part of the reason it is so hard for me to give a shit about this team and contribute around here, is the only thing you all want to do is bitch and complain because the Packers don't win the Super Bowl every year. You have no idea how to build a franchise or what it takes, but you all can demand coaches lose their jobs because there was a slight regression in the receivers room.

[Deputy Nutz]

The issue with Love, is you can take the bumps in the road and when it seems more than just bumps it doesn't matter the Packers went and made him the highest paid QB after one season as the starter. There ain't many options but to sink or swim with Love at QB.