Perfect Match for WR issue

[woodbuck27]

cheesner:

Points well made in regards to the actual agreement bet. parties that resulted in only a one year deal with Ahman.

First. It now seems to me that just that was favourable to A. Green as it was reported.

Secondly.

Yes I agree that Ahman performed beyond what I expected. I felt his recovery was something special, given the seriousness of that injury.

To Ted Thompson's credit also.

He gave Ahman a chance of a future in the NFL, where it's doubtful if it would have come elsewhere.

[Packnut]

Injuries

How is Stallworth anywhere near the type of player we'd want on the Packers next year?

He's consistantly injured and has had attitude problems with teammates, coaches, and the front office throughout his career.

He's precisely the kind of guy I hope the Packers stay away from. He's a cancer. He's not a team player. Why bring in a guy who isn't in it for the long-haul? He will do more damage while he's here auditioning for his next gig then he will do anything to help the team.

Yep, but the anti-TT folk look Redskins with envy and want to make a move merely for the sake of making of move. Very few of the FA would have made much of a difference this year, and the few premiere ones would have been a waste of money based on their positions.

The anti-TT folk,mmmm.

Who are these fans?

Ted Thompson has been OUR GM for going on three seasons. Since he arrived OUR record has been a combined 12W and 20L.

Talented footbal players just don't arrive in Green Bay and lend support for success. It's up to Ted Thompson to secure that, by always trying to make the Packers more competitive.

I agree that Ted Thompson had to get the Packer house in order. He had to get OUR CAP space in order. We see that burdened by the fact of two successive poor seasons. Yet with promise in 2006 of a better 2007.

We had alot 0f CAP space in 2006. We may agree on gains with the additions of CB Charles Woodson and DT Ryan Pickett as this past season unfolded.We are pleased that TT resigned Aaron Kampman after we almost fumbled him away, and extended Cullen Jenkins and Al Harris recently.

Not attempting to beat a dead horse here but to gan insight.


Ted Thompson elected to resign Ahman Green for only one season. He worked his tail off to recondition and help OUR running game, that wasn't as a whole very good but can we fault Ahman Green, his work ethic?

I don't believe so.

Wouldn't it have been more prudent for Ted Thompson to re-sign Ahman Green for two or three seasons? He'd be what. . .33 years old then.

Was there too much risk for Ted Thompson to make that move happen last off season?

I have always maintained that Ted Thompson isnt the known quality at GM that many here believe he is. Evidence that he's a GM in training.

I am certain that Ted Thompson is in charge and that he's OUR immediate future. I suspect that's not a constant.

It's my position that a GM has to have a plan that is based on two ideals. Proper operation that includes a sound economic policy and with success measured based on a PLAN.

The evidence of not getting that second part right is clear. Packer fan appreciation is in a downspin as OUR team remains uncompetitive, yet, ticket prices are rising.

How long has Ted Thompson got to get it all together? See above.

Is there one member of this board that's truly anti -Ted Thompson? Don't we all want him to succeed within certain time frames? Should we TRUST that will in fact be the case?

NO !!

I participate in this forum, scratch my head trying to understand Ted Thompson and his style of managing. I'm a Packer fan 365 days a year.

I sincerely hope for, want him to succeed.

GO Packers !

I think we would all be better GMs than TT with the benefit of hindsight. So he should have signed Ahman to a longer contract last year. Yup. Can't argue there. But what if Ahman did not regain his form after the injury? To me - Ahman was slowing down even before the injury. I didn't expect him to be as good as he was last year. If we had invested a lot of money in him at that point - I think that would have been a poor move on TT's part. What's more - are you sure Ahman would have signed a longer contract? If he felt he was going to come back - perhaps he would have only opted for the one year I-need-to-prove-myself-again-and-hit-a-big-payday contract.

You are right though, the bottom line on TT will be wins and loses. But you have to look at the increased talent level to know that more wins are coming in the future. Impatience by a GM can ruin a team. Build slowly through the draft is the most effective way to build a team. Ridiculing TT for every 'non-move' is ridiculous. The Packers need to invest their money carefully in players that will help the team to win.

Think about this - we have lots of cap space now - because of the prudent moves TT made last year. We will have lots of cap space next year - because TT will be prudent this year. But the money is spent every year - so don't tell me that it is a waste.

So far Teddy is 0-2 when it comes to reading injuries and how soon a player can come back. He only gave Green a 1 year deal due to the injury and let's not forget the Walker fiasco. I'm not saying it's an exact science but being 0-2 does'nt deserve a pat on the back.........

[gureski]

You cannot call Ted Thompson a GM in Training. The guy has had two drafts being fully in charge of running the Packers. The rookie label is factually off. You can like or dislike his results but you can't call him a rookie after he's been calling the shots for over 2 years. It just doesn't apply.

And just because I can't let it go... Thompson did NOT make a mistake in signing Green to a 1 year deal last year. Green's injury is the type that it normally ends a players career. Given that Green was already slowing down prior to the injury AND given the fact that Green wanted more money then the team was comfortable giving him over 2 or more years....Thompson did the only prudent thing by inking him to a 1 year deal. Don't forget that the Packers talked about a deal with Green last year for more then 1 year. It was Green, in the end, that decided it was in his best interest (translation $$$$$$) to take the 1 year deal and prove to the world he was back. Green did that and found a team willing to overpay for his services. Good move by him but that doesn't mean it was a bad move by Thompson. It just means there was a sucker out there willing to pay and now Green and his family are set financially because of it.

With all that said, anyone can say Thompson should've paid Green more money last year to lock him up OR you could say he should've offerred him more money this year to lock him up BUT everyone can agree that whatever amount of money Green wanted was obviously more then he was realistically worth. He's past his prime. He's coming off a major injury. He's got alot of wear and tear on his body. If your stance is that the Packers should've overpaid for Green because the market paid him $5.75 million a year then that's fine but realize that your stance is just that.....you wanted Thompson to overpay for a 30 year old RB who is past his prime and was coming off a major injury. That's not the normal standard of business that most fans desire their management take. Fans normally don't want to see their GM overpay for players that fit the description of an A.Green. Fans usually get angry when GM's overpay for guys like that.

Again, it's okay if you feel that way but you have to realize that feeling that way means that you believe Thompson should've overpaid for a RB with lots of mileage that is past his prime, coming off a major injury.

[woodbuck27]

Guerski:

What you post above is difficult to challenge.

As I stated in my last post. I believe that Ahman Green had a large role and self interest in his own future.

He did well for Ahman.

[retailguy]

Well, I say that Thompson had his chance to lock Green up, with probably LESS than he ultimately offered, and that was BEFORE March 2nd.

Everything indicates that the Packers offered 3.5 to 4.0 mil per year prior to Free Agency. Had he offered $5 or $5.5 and AG didn't take it, I'd be silent on the whole issue. If he'd MADE THE BEST OFFER HE COULD PRIOR to Free Agency, I'd be fine with that. That doesn not appear to be what happened.

If Thompson is the FANTASTIC GM that everyone makes him out to be, he SHOULD HAVE known that he'd get an "above market" offer in Free Agency. KNOWING THIS IS HIS JOB.

THAT was his mistake, and YES, it was a mistake. I didn't expect him to MEET Houston's offer, I expected him NOT TO LET IT GET THAT FAR.

But we are where we are, and barring a rookie miracle, thats FUCKED.

Get used to it.

[esoxx]

Well, I say that Thompson had his chance to lock Green up, with probably LESS than he ultimately offered, and that was BEFORE March 2nd.

Everything indicates that the Packers offered 3.5 to 4.0 mil per year prior to Free Agency. Had he offered $5 or $5.5 and AG didn't take it, I'd be silent on the whole issue. If he'd MADE THE BEST OFFER HE COULD PRIOR to Free Agency, I'd be fine with that. That doesn not appear to be what happened.

Exactly.

Where TT miscalculated was allowing him to get to FA in the first place. Why offer up to 5 mil once he's on the open market when you could have approached that figure leading up to FA and he likely signs. Instead he tried to squeeze AG and hope he takes the low offer. I don't think that's the way to treat a player of AG's tenure and who has been a great "team player."

Everyone talks about Al Harris and how he did things right by not complaing about his contract during the season. Ahman signed a deal in '01 that was severly outdated by '03 but kept his mouth shut AND didn't blow off mini-camps ala Al. But we shouldn't reward Green.

People can rationalize losing AG anyway they want but if TT would have just played it fair (offered what he ultimatley did once he hit the open market) Green's still a Packer and we're a better team. Isn't that what the goal is, to be a better team?

Rationalize away.

[woodbuck27]

Well, I say that Thompson had his chance to lock Green up, with probably LESS than he ultimately offered, and that was BEFORE March 2nd.

Everything indicates that the Packers offered 3.5 to 4.0 mil per year prior to Free Agency. Had he offered $5 or $5.5 and AG didn't take it, I'd be silent on the whole issue. If he'd MADE THE BEST OFFER HE COULD PRIOR to Free Agency, I'd be fine with that. That doesn not appear to be what happened.

If Thompson is the FANTASTIC GM that everyone makes him out to be, he SHOULD HAVE known that he'd get an "above market" offer in Free Agency. KNOWING THIS IS HIS JOB.

THAT was his mistake, and YES, it was a mistake. I didn't expect him to MEET Houston's offer, I expected him NOT TO LET IT GET THAT FAR.

But we are where we are, and barring a rookie miracle, thats FUCKED.

Get used to it.

YUP.

I hope I'm wrong but that certainly appears to be a . . .

BIG AMEN.

[cheesner]

Well, I say that Thompson had his chance to lock Green up, with probably LESS than he ultimately offered, and that was BEFORE March 2nd.

Everything indicates that the Packers offered 3.5 to 4.0 mil per year prior to Free Agency. Had he offered $5 or $5.5 and AG didn't take it, I'd be silent on the whole issue. If he'd MADE THE BEST OFFER HE COULD PRIOR to Free Agency, I'd be fine with that. That doesn not appear to be what happened.

If Thompson is the FANTASTIC GM that everyone makes him out to be, he SHOULD HAVE known that he'd get an "above market" offer in Free Agency. KNOWING THIS IS HIS JOB.

THAT was his mistake, and YES, it was a mistake. I didn't expect him to MEET Houston's offer, I expected him NOT TO LET IT GET THAT FAR.

But we are where we are, and barring a rookie miracle, thats FUCKED.

Get used to it.

Let me get this straight - It is the GM's job to give an 'above market' contract? TT is expected, in your mind, to over-pay players? What the hell? Thank goodness, TT's motivation is to improve the Packers to a championship level and not pander to those who want to invest (overpay) in past-their-prime players.

TT's JOB is to make the Packers better in the long run. You don't do that by overpaying any player. As there is a salary cap in the NFL today - he has to make tough economic decisions - he has to weigh performance vrs price. Unfortunately, some other team thinks he is more valuable than TT.

[woodbuck27]

Well, I say that Thompson had his chance to lock Green up, with probably LESS than he ultimately offered, and that was BEFORE March 2nd.

Everything indicates that the Packers offered 3.5 to 4.0 mil per year prior to Free Agency. Had he offered $5 or $5.5 and AG didn't take it, I'd be silent on the whole issue. If he'd MADE THE BEST OFFER HE COULD PRIOR to Free Agency, I'd be fine with that. That doesn not appear to be what happened.

If Thompson is the FANTASTIC GM that everyone makes him out to be, he SHOULD HAVE known that he'd get an "above market" offer in Free Agency. KNOWING THIS IS HIS JOB.

THAT was his mistake, and YES, it was a mistake. I didn't expect him to MEET Houston's offer, I expected him NOT TO LET IT GET THAT FAR.

But we are where we are, and barring a rookie miracle, thats FUCKED.

Get used to it.

Let me get this straight - It is the GM's job to give an 'above market' contract? TT is expected, in your mind, to over-pay players? What the hell? Thank goodness, TT's motivation is to improve the Packers to a championship level and not pander to those who want to invest (overpay) in past-their-prime players.

TT's JOB is to make the Packers better in the long run. You don't do that by overpaying any player. As there is a salary cap in the NFL today - he has to make tough economic decisions - he has to weigh performance vrs price. Unfortunately, some other team thinks he is more valuable than TT.

Yes we shouldn't pigeon hole the Ahman Green issue, desite 'the fact' that it's impact has left us up to our crotch's in the alligator swamp.

Ted Thompson hasn't left the canvass.

[gureski]

Two things:

1. We're not screwed at RB. They have Morency who was the ninth pick in the third round just two years ago. If the Packers take a RB with their third round pick this year I doubt many of you same fans that are griping right now will be giving up on that player after his second season. I take that back...based on the orgasmic comments about Gado after his 15 minutes of fame, I KNOW you fans wont give up on a third round RB after his second year.

Morency looked good running the ball last year, when healthy. Who was A.Green when the Packers acquired him and gave him a chance over D.Levens? How many people said Wolf was an idiot for giving Green the job over Levens? You don't have to like Morency's chances but you do have to realize that the cupboard isn't bare. We're not screwed because Green left. We have a legitimate candidate to run in the ZBS. ZBS doesn't need a big RB. Look at how W.Dunn has excelled for years in the ZBS. Morency could be the guy.

2. For the guy who said Thompson should've offerred Green 5 or 5.5 million before free agency.... Read my previous post and realize that you are angry because Ted Thompson didn't overpay for Green. He's not worth $5 million a year. He's not worth $5.5. million a year and he certainly isn't worth the $5.75 million a year the Texans gave him. He's a 30 year old RB who is past his prime and coming off a major injury that usually ends RB's careers. You normally don't overpay for such a player. The Texans did. Good for A.Green. Ted Thompson isn't an idiot because he didn't overpay. Realize you're angry because the team didn't overpay for a high-risk player. And while you're at it, realize that A.Green signed his extension. He willingly took more money up front in exchange for a future big pay-day. That was a choice he made. It's not up to Ted Thompson to make sure Green gets a big fat payday to make up for lost past earnings. It's one thing to argue that Thompson should've overpaid for Green but it's a whole nother thing to infer that the organization owed it to Green to overpay him. That's just not how it works in reality.

[Bretsky]

Well, I say that Thompson had his chance to lock Green up, with probably LESS than he ultimately offered, and that was BEFORE March 2nd.

Everything indicates that the Packers offered 3.5 to 4.0 mil per year prior to Free Agency. Had he offered $5 or $5.5 and AG didn't take it, I'd be silent on the whole issue. If he'd MADE THE BEST OFFER HE COULD PRIOR to Free Agency, I'd be fine with that. That doesn not appear to be what happened.

Exactly.

Where TT miscalculated was allowing him to get to FA in the first place. Why offer up to 5 mil once he's on the open market when you could have approached that figure leading up to FA and he likely signs. Instead he tried to squeeze AG and hope he takes the low offer. I don't think that's the way to treat a player of AG's tenure and who has been a great "team player."

Everyone talks about Al Harris and how he did things right by not complaing about his contract during the season. Ahman signed a deal in '01 that was severly outdated by '03 but kept his mouth shut AND didn't blow off mini-camps ala Al. But we shouldn't reward Green.

People can rationalize losing AG anyway they want but if TT would have just played it fair (offered what he ultimatley did once he hit the open market) Green's still a Packer and we're a better team. Isn't that what the goal is, to be a better team?

Rationalize away.

YUP

[Bretsky]

Well, I say that Thompson had his chance to lock Green up, with probably LESS than he ultimately offered, and that was BEFORE March 2nd.

Everything indicates that the Packers offered 3.5 to 4.0 mil per year prior to Free Agency. Had he offered $5 or $5.5 and AG didn't take it, I'd be silent on the whole issue. If he'd MADE THE BEST OFFER HE COULD PRIOR to Free Agency, I'd be fine with that. That doesn not appear to be what happened.

If Thompson is the FANTASTIC GM that everyone makes him out to be, he SHOULD HAVE known that he'd get an "above market" offer in Free Agency. KNOWING THIS IS HIS JOB.

THAT was his mistake, and YES, it was a mistake. I didn't expect him to MEET Houston's offer, I expected him NOT TO LET IT GET THAT FAR.

But we are where we are, and barring a rookie miracle, thats FUCKED.

Get used to it.

Let me get this straight - It is the GM's job to give an 'above market' contract? TT is expected, in your mind, to over-pay players? What the hell? Thank goodness, TT's motivation is to improve the Packers to a championship level and not pander to those who want to invest (overpay) in past-their-prime players.

TT's JOB is to make the Packers better in the long run. You don't do that by overpaying any player. As there is a salary cap in the NFL today - he has to make tough economic decisions - he has to weigh performance vrs price. Unfortunately, some other team thinks he is more valuable than TT.

I'm not sure what an "above" market contract is. The cap is jacked up, teams have loads of money, and the market has changed.

Maybe we're not smart enough to determine what a fair market contracts is ?

TT probably needed to offer up around 15MIL for five years before free agency. Is that an above market contract ? I'm not sure it is in this market.

Look at the newest RB signings. I look at several and say 5MIL or so per year is very fair. This is a changing market.

[Bretsky]

Two things:

1. We're not screwed at RB. They have Morency who was the ninth pick in the third round just two years ago. If the Packers take a RB with their third round pick this year I doubt many of you same fans that are griping right now will be giving up on that player after his second season. I take that back...based on the orgasmic comments about Gado after his 15 minutes of fame, I KNOW you fans wont give up on a third round RB after his second year.

Morency looked good running the ball last year, when healthy. Who was A.Green when the Packers acquired him and gave him a chance over D.Levens? How many people said Wolf was an idiot for giving Green the job over Levens? You don't have to like Morency's chances but you do have to realize that the cupboard isn't bare. We're not screwed because Green left. We have a legitimate candidate to run in the ZBS. ZBS doesn't need a big RB. Look at how W.Dunn has excelled for years in the ZBS. Morency could be the guy.

2. For the guy who said Thompson should've offerred Green 5 or 5.5 million before free agency.... Read my previous post and realize that you are angry because Ted Thompson didn't overpay for Green. He's not worth $5 million a year. He's not worth $5.5. million a year and he certainly isn't worth the $5.75 million a year the Texans gave him. He's a 30 year old RB who is past his prime and coming off a major injury that usually ends RB's careers. You normally don't overpay for such a player. The Texans did. Good for A.Green. Ted Thompson isn't an idiot because he didn't overpay. Realize you're angry because the team didn't overpay for a high-risk player. And while you're at it, realize that A.Green signed his extension. He willingly took more money up front in exchange for a future big pay-day. That was a choice he made. It's not up to Ted Thompson to make sure Green gets a big fat payday to make up for lost past earnings. It's one thing to argue that Thompson should've overpaid for Green but it's a whole nother thing to infer that the organization owed it to Green to overpay him. That's just not how it works in reality.

Are you trying to argue that Morency is a capable #1, or are you justifying your points by saying he "might" be and we should not give up ?

Regarding Green, I DO FEEL that he truly wanted him he should have made his best effort BEFORE free agency.

I'm quite disappointed in what he has done with the RB position after losing Ahman Green........aka............nada

[red]

I think our need for a "starter material" WR dimmed a bit when we let Green go.

Since we don't have a "top flight" back, "beefing" up the WR core, could be a waste of time. They'll be no need to put an 8th man in the box to stop the run, so that defender will be available for coverage responsibilities negating the benefit of the talent.

Quite honestly, if there isn't a solution to the RB problem we might as well just resign ourselves to letting the young guys develop.

If the plan is to build long-term, that's the more prudent course of action.

But make no mistake, I'd rather win now, because I think with a few plugged holes, THEY CAN.

Obviously, the Green Bay Packers disagree with me - and you.

i actually agree with everything you said here

as soon as it started to look like we might let green walk i started thinking, well what the hell is the point of bringing in moss then?

[gureski]

Two things:

1. We're not screwed at RB. They have Morency who was the ninth pick in the third round just two years ago. If the Packers take a RB with their third round pick this year I doubt many of you same fans that are griping right now will be giving up on that player after his second season. I take that back...based on the orgasmic comments about Gado after his 15 minutes of fame, I KNOW you fans wont give up on a third round RB after his second year.

Morency looked good running the ball last year, when healthy. Who was A.Green when the Packers acquired him and gave him a chance over D.Levens? How many people said Wolf was an idiot for giving Green the job over Levens? You don't have to like Morency's chances but you do have to realize that the cupboard isn't bare. We're not screwed because Green left. We have a legitimate candidate to run in the ZBS. ZBS doesn't need a big RB. Look at how W.Dunn has excelled for years in the ZBS. Morency could be the guy.

2. For the guy who said Thompson should've offerred Green 5 or 5.5 million before free agency.... Read my previous post and realize that you are angry because Ted Thompson didn't overpay for Green. He's not worth $5 million a year. He's not worth $5.5. million a year and he certainly isn't worth the $5.75 million a year the Texans gave him. He's a 30 year old RB who is past his prime and coming off a major injury that usually ends RB's careers. You normally don't overpay for such a player. The Texans did. Good for A.Green. Ted Thompson isn't an idiot because he didn't overpay. Realize you're angry because the team didn't overpay for a high-risk player. And while you're at it, realize that A.Green signed his extension. He willingly took more money up front in exchange for a future big pay-day. That was a choice he made. It's not up to Ted Thompson to make sure Green gets a big fat payday to make up for lost past earnings. It's one thing to argue that Thompson should've overpaid for Green but it's a whole nother thing to infer that the organization owed it to Green to overpay him. That's just not how it works in reality.

Are you trying to argue that Morency is a capable #1, or are you justifying your points by saying he "might" be and we should not give up ?

Regarding Green, I DO FEEL that he truly wanted him he should have made his best effort BEFORE free agency.

I'm quite disappointed in what he has done with the RB position after losing Ahman Green........aka............nada

The context of the comment about Morency being starter material is that people were saying the cupboard is bare. It's not bare. Morency is a valid option right now. There is hope there. Because he's untested, you ought to cover yourself and have another option available but the real point is that Green wasn't all we had. All the chips weren't on Green coming back the way some are making it out to be. I will go on record as saying Morency (so long as he stays healthy) will do just as good or better then what Green did last year. There is way more upside right now with morency then there was with Green.

Second, you say "Best Offer" but what you really mean is an offer that OVERPAYS for a high-risk RB. Green spent time with Denver and obviously didn't get the kind of money he was offerred in Houston. Were they dumb too? Were they out of touch with the market? Ask all 32 GM's in the league if they would've paid A.Green $5 million a year and I bet over 2/3 would say NO. You just don't pay that kind of money to a player in Green's situation.

What's his situation?

Green is past his prime. That's a fact. Green is coming off a major injury that normally ends RB's careers. That's a fact. Green has lots of mileage on him. That's a fact. He's 30 years old and the statistics of RB's over 30 aren't pretty. Those are facts too. If you take the name Green out of the sentences I've just written I doubt you'd want your GM to ante up with a deal that overpaid for a player like. Why then...are so many angry that the Packers didn't OVERPAY! To lock up Green Thompson would've had to overpay! It's true! Green has alot of negatives surrounding him right now. He's not the kind of player you pay that kind of money to! Look at J.Lewis's deal with Cleveland! Lewis is younger and had a 2,000 yard rushing season in 2003! He only got $3.5 million and a 1 year contract! If there was a big market for high-risk RB's then Lewis would've gotten $5.75 million from someone too!

If you are pissed that Thompson didn't sign Green then you're pissed that he didn't OVERPAY Green. It's as simple as that. So long as those that are angry realize that, I'm okay. YOu cannot act like $5 million or more for Green was not above his true value. The Texans overpaid. Thompson isn't an idiot because he refused to.