Favre or No Favre? Ted Thompson or No Ted Thompson?

[pbmax]

Wolf's worst first round selections were reaching for need. You are only guessing that Meachem or Lynch would have panned out. This is especially dangerous with Lynch as he would have cost even more picks.

And a team that allows 4.1 avg. yards per carry cannot say it has no needs on the D line. Unless you believe the linebacking corp is even more subpar.

I don't want TT to act "impulsively"...

I want him to move deftly and intelligently into positions to get top flight players at positions need.

Is Meachem a pro bowl calibur WR??? I don't know, but I can guarentee you that one of the receivers out of the 1st couple of rounds will be of that calibur. It's TT's job to find that guy... It fills a major need, and gives value for the pick.

Is Lynch a pro bowl calibur RB??? I don't know, but if he's rated high enough to where most teams had him going #12 to Buffalo, then TT certainly should have considered moving up to #11... it fills a major need, and gives value for the pick.

TT is so rigid, that I don't ever see him moving up or down to fill needs... he's strictly a BPA, regardless of position. 6 quality DT's isn't going to score you any more TD's than 5 quality DT's will; but, I'm pretty sure they'll score fewer TD's than Meachem or Lynch.

BPA? Explain Harrell over Quinn. Explain Aaron Rodgers.

Enough said about BPA.

It's BPA according to TT...

Harrell, if he stays healthy (big IF) will be a good player; but, I also think he serves as an example of why TT will likely never be able to build a true contender, i.e. he doesn't care one wit about filling needs.

It isn't necessarily Quinn vs Harrell; it could just as easily be Harrell vs Meachem, or Harrell vs Lynch, or Bowe, or one of the Corners...

What makes Harrell the quintessential pick is that we had absolutely no need there... the pick really does nothing to improve the team in the short term - which if fine with TT.

It could be several more years b/4 we actually get a 1st round draft pick that matches up with a need... wouldn't that be a shocker????

[woodbuck27]

I don't want TT to act "impulsively"...

I want him to move deftly and intelligently into positions to get top flight players at positions need.

Is Meachem a pro bowl calibur WR??? I don't know, but I can guarentee you that one of the receivers out of the 1st couple of rounds will be of that calibur. It's TT's job to find that guy... It fills a major need, and gives value for the pick.

Is Lynch a pro bowl calibur RB??? I don't know, but if he's rated high enough to where most teams had him going #12 to Buffalo, then TT certainly should have considered moving up to #11... it fills a major need, and gives value for the pick.

TT is so rigid, that I don't ever see him moving up or down to fill needs... he's strictly a BPA, regardless of position. 6 quality DT's isn't going to score you any more TD's than 5 quality DT's will; but, I'm pretty sure they'll score fewer TD's than Meachem or Lynch.

BPA? Explain Harrell over Quinn. Explain Aaron Rodgers.

Enough said about BPA.

BPA on Ted's board.

Now . . . that makes all the difference.

[mraynrand]

What makes Harrell the quintessential pick is that we had absolutely no need there... the pick really does nothing to improve the team in the short term - which if fine with TT.

Achh. You keep saying this - and from the guy who always reminds us of how small and fast the GB LBs are. Why do you think they drafted a big DT? To protect their LBs (remember, Wist, GB drafts small fast LBs - gee, who tells us this OVER AND OVER AND OVER) and to be able to move Jenkins out to end. Both of those guys were signed in the offseason, indicating they'll be around for a long time. Without Harrell, they might be much more ineffective. I disagree with your assessment - they needed a big DT. The Packers were in 3rd and short far too often last year SPECIFICALLY because they had trouble stopping the run on 1st and 2nd down. Did you notice that Chicago averaged 3-4 more possessions than the rest of the league on offense last year. The reason was their defense got off the field faster. I think the pick is going to be a major upgrade.

[mraynrand]

BPA is horse shit. Do you think that if the BPA was a corner every time the Packers were up to pick that they'd draft 10-12 corners? Use your heads people. No team drafts strictly by BPA. They draft the BPA that they think they need and that fills out their roster

[wist43]

What makes Harrell the quintessential pick is that we had absolutely no need there... the pick really does nothing to improve the team in the short term - which if fine with TT.

Achh. You keep saying this - and from the guy who always reminds us of how small and fast the GB LBs are. Why do you think they drafted a big DT? To protect their LBs (remember, Wist, GB drafts small fast LBs - gee, who tells us this OVER AND OVER AND OVER) and to be able to move Jenkins out to end. Both of those guys were signed in the offseason, indicating they'll be around for a long time. Without Harrell, they might be much more ineffective. I disagree with your assessment - they needed a big DT. The Packers were in 3rd and short far too often last year SPECIFICALLY because they had trouble stopping the run on 1st and 2nd down. Did you notice that Chicago averaged 3-4 more possessions than the rest of the league on offense last year. The reason was their defense got off the field faster. I think the pick is going to be a major upgrade.

I've said all along that I think Harrell can be a damn good player, and have readily acknowledged that he instantly becomes our best DT. Also, I would almost always take a blue chip DT ahead of a blue chipper at another position.

That said, the difference between Harrell and Williams is miniscule compared to the difference between Ruvell Martin and Robert Meachem; or, the difference between Vernand Morency and Marshawn Lynch.

Harrell is just as big a risk (maybe more b/c of his injury history), as is Lynch or Meachem... hell, every draft pick is a risk - you simply never know what you're going to get with these kids.

As for your contention about BPA... as ridiculous as it seems, I'm not so sure that TT would not, in fact, draft 15 CB's if a CB were the highest rated player on his board when his turn came to pick.

I heard a news conference he gave a couple of weeks ago where he talked about BPA vs need, and he actually said "you can't draft 8 QB's"... but, he would almost always take the BPA on his board regardless of position.

No one will ever convince me that there isn't a comparable player available at a position of need... what if Meachem turns out to be the pro bowler, and Harrell cashes his checks from the trainers room??? TT will be looking for a job at that point I'd imagine.

At some point you have to acknowledge need, and you have to make intelligent decisions in going about finding impact players to fill those needs.

Wolfe made some mistakes trying to fill needs... and when he reached for a player I was very critical of him. At the same time, he won us a SB by going out and being aggressive in filling the needs he had.

As I've pointed out, Wolfe's entire starting DL in the SB was made up of FA's... he acquired the best player on his team via trade (Favre - would TT ever do that??? Of course not), etc...

[Bretsky]

Wolf's worst first round selections were reaching for need. You are only guessing that Meachem or Lynch would have panned out. This is especially dangerous with Lynch as he would have cost even more picks.

And a team that allows 4.1 avg. yards per carry cannot say it has no needs on the D line. Unless you believe the linebacking corp is even more subpar.

I don't want TT to act "impulsively"...

I want him to move deftly and intelligently into positions to get top flight players at positions need.

Is Meachem a pro bowl calibur WR??? I don't know, but I can guarentee you that one of the receivers out of the 1st couple of rounds will be of that calibur. It's TT's job to find that guy... It fills a major need, and gives value for the pick.

Is Lynch a pro bowl calibur RB??? I don't know, but if he's rated high enough to where most teams had him going #12 to Buffalo, then TT certainly should have considered moving up to #11... it fills a major need, and gives value for the pick.

TT is so rigid, that I don't ever see him moving up or down to fill needs... he's strictly a BPA, regardless of position. 6 quality DT's isn't going to score you any more TD's than 5 quality DT's will; but, I'm pretty sure they'll score fewer TD's than Meachem or Lynch.

BPA? Explain Harrell over Quinn. Explain Aaron Rodgers.

Enough said about BPA.

It's BPA according to TT...

Harrell, if he stays healthy (big IF) will be a good player; but, I also think he serves as an example of why TT will likely never be able to build a true contender, i.e. he doesn't care one wit about filling needs.

It isn't necessarily Quinn vs Harrell; it could just as easily be Harrell vs Meachem, or Harrell vs Lynch, or Bowe, or one of the Corners...

What makes Harrell the quintessential pick is that we had absolutely no need there... the pick really does nothing to improve the team in the short term - which if fine with TT.

It could be several more years b/4 we actually get a 1st round draft pick that matches up with a need... wouldn't that be a shocker????

Was our run defense that bad after replacing KGB ?

[Scott Campbell]

As for your contention about BPA... as ridiculous as it seems, I'm not so sure that TT would not, in fact, draft 15 CB's if a CB were the highest rated player on his board when his turn came to pick.

I'm afraid that's too ridiculous for me to buy.

[Scott Campbell]

BPA is horse shit. Do you think that if the BPA was a corner every time the Packers were up to pick that they'd draft 10-12 corners? Use your heads people. No team drafts strictly by BPA. They draft the BPA that they think they need and that fills out their roster

Compare our need areas to our draft picks. They align almost perfectly.

[Merlin]

Um, what draft are you watching? We haven't drafted anyone based on "need", it's always BPA.Ask Ted he will tell you.

[MadtownPacker]

Him throwing TT under the bus means little to me.

How did we all react to Peyton Manning throwing his O-Line under the bus after their playoff loss to Pittsburgh 2 years ago?

How would you react if Ted held a press conference saying "how dissapointed he was that we didn't score there" after Brett threw an interception on first and goal in a crucial portion of a game?

You don't publically throw your teammates under the bus. That standard shoud apply to Ted, Brett and anyone else who is a part of a team anywhere.

I think Manning dissing his OL wasnt cool cuz if he could throw on the run worth a damn he would help them out. Those are the guys he goes to battle with so I didnt agree.

TT on the otherhand is Favre's boss and honestly, if you could take a shot at your boss without getting shitcanned you probably would.

BTW - I like the idea of someone calling out Favre's mistakes, which is why I like McCarthy.

[Joemailman]

What makes Harrell the quintessential pick is that we had absolutely no need there... the pick really does nothing to improve the team in the short term - which if fine with TT.

Achh. You keep saying this - and from the guy who always reminds us of how small and fast the GB LBs are. Why do you think they drafted a big DT? To protect their LBs (remember, Wist, GB drafts small fast LBs - gee, who tells us this OVER AND OVER AND OVER) and to be able to move Jenkins out to end. Both of those guys were signed in the offseason, indicating they'll be around for a long time. Without Harrell, they might be much more ineffective. I disagree with your assessment - they needed a big DT. The Packers were in 3rd and short far too often last year SPECIFICALLY because they had trouble stopping the run on 1st and 2nd down. Did you notice that Chicago averaged 3-4 more possessions than the rest of the league on offense last year. The reason was their defense got off the field faster. I think the pick is going to be a major upgrade.

I've said all along that I think Harrell can be a damn good player, and have readily acknowledged that he instantly becomes our best DT. Also, I would almost always take a blue chip DT ahead of a blue chipper at another position.

That said, the difference between Harrell and Williams is miniscule compared to the difference between Ruvell Martin and Robert Meachem; or, the difference between Vernand Morency and Marshawn Lynch.

The difference between Harrell and Williams will not be miniscule when it comes to tying up blockers at the line of scrimmage. Many may not see much difference, but I suspect Hawk and Barnett will be able to tell the difference. I believe Harrell will be a major upgrade against the run.

Also, the Packers need at least 3 good DT's to do what they want to do defensively. Without the drafting of Harrell, the 3rd DT would have been Johnny Jolly or Colin Cole. Having Williams as the #3 is also a major upgrade. With this move, TT has improved the starting quality, as well as the depth of the defensive line.

[wist43]

I suspect that Jolly would have been the #3 tackle... he's got talent and upside.

As I've said, DT is a critical position, and I really don't mind taking a guy at that position if he's a true difference maker.

The Packers said they had Harrell rated above Okoye, and I wouldn't have minded taking Okoye at 16 b/c of his upside... but, the Harrell pick threw everyone for loop. Harrell was rated as a lower end 1st round pick, so he's not a huge reach, and some think he may turn out to be the best DT in this draft; but, given his injury history, you've got to wonder if he'll hold up.

And then there are all of those needs... Like I said, maybe one of these years need will meet up with BPA... and, TT and his happy followers will skip off into the sunset...

[Fritz]

"Do I blame Favre for wanting to be traded? No, not at all. In fact I think it lends a lot of creditability to what I have speculated all along, Thompson doesn't want Favre."

I thought someone might say this. But if Thompson really didn't want Favre around, wouldn't he have jumped on this and traded Favre, claiming he wanted to honor the future Hall of Famer's wishes? It would be the perfect scenario for all you conspiracy theorists - TT gets his secret desire to be rid of Favre while pretending he didn't really want to do it, but only did so out of respect for the great QB. But TT didn't do that.

So Merlin, in my estimation the opposite of what you say is true. This whole flap actually undermines the claim of those who somehow think that what's behind all this is TT's fervent desire to get rid of Brett Favre.

No, it isn't the opposite. Thompson doesn't want to be the "guy who ran Favre out of town". He wants Favre to leave on his own. The problem? TT has been exposed.

Well, I disagree Merlin. Had Farve actually asked for a trade, it would have been TT doing the "right thing" by honoring the future HOF's request. This way it would have been TT NOT running Favre out of town, but simply acceding to Favre's request.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Funny how Jolly now compares to Harrell because one site said that Harrell reminds them of Jolly. Jolly, even if healthy, didn't come close to this guy as a prospect. If he did, the Packers couldn't have gotten him in the 6th round. Nothing we saw last year makes me think Jolly is the real deal. Hell, we barely saw the guy. We know nothing about the guy.

[pbmax]

Bretsky, the most honest answer is probably not. But with only four games to go on, I'm not sure.

The problem with those four games is that two were against teams struggling to run (Vikings and Lions I think) and one that was just trying to keep healthy (Bears, which meant they ran a lot).

If you look at the raw data over those for non-KGB games, the average is close (4.0 I believe) but that also included 2 huge runs by Gore against San Fran before Jenkins entered.

[Was our run defense that bad after replacing KGB ?