I would consider 2007 a Failure IF

[The Leaper]

My point is we witnessed a 8-8 record.

Yet many are willing to accept 5-7 wins if they see general improvements. If we win 5-7 we are not improving.

I disagree.

If our schedule next year proves more difficult, then 6 or 7 wins can easily be viewed as equivalent to 8 wins...possibly even better considering all factors involved.

Let's review. We won 5 games in our division last year against two AWFUL teams (Minnesota with NO offense, Detroit with NO defense) and were handed a game by Chicago because they had NO stake in the game. Our other 3 wins came against the rest of the WORST teams in the league. Against the strong teams, we often were embarrassed...or just flat out SHUTOUT. Our record at Lambeau was dismal.

So yes...it is VERY EASY for me to envision how a 6 or 7 win season could be seen as improvement. Were we always competitive...as opposed to last year? Did we put up a greater fight at home...as opposed to last year? Were we successful getting the job done in crunch time...as opposed to last year? Were we able to convert in the red zone better than 16 out of 49 times?

You people who view last year as some kind of evidence that this team is on the cusp of playoff contention need to go back and take a SERIOUS look at just how bad the team played against anyone who wasn't mediocre at best. If we played in the AFC last year, we would've been lucky to get 5 wins.

[Bretsky]

My point is we witnessed a 8-8 record.

Yet many are willing to accept 5-7 wins if they see general improvements. If we win 5-7 we are not improving.

I disagree.

If our schedule next year proves more difficult, then 6 or 7 wins can easily be viewed as equivalent to 8 wins...possibly even better considering all factors involved.

Let's review. We won 5 games in our division last year against two AWFUL teams (Minnesota with NO offense, Detroit with NO defense) and were handed a game by Chicago because they had NO stake in the game. Our other 3 wins came against the rest of the WORST teams in the league. Against the strong teams, we often were embarrassed...or just flat out SHUTOUT. Our record at Lambeau was dismal.

So yes...it is VERY EASY for me to envision how a 6 or 7 win season could be seen as improvement. Were we always competitive...as opposed to last year? Did we put up a greater fight at home...as opposed to last year? Were we successful getting the job done in crunch time...as opposed to last year? Were we able to convert in the red zone better than 16 out of 49 times?

You people who view last year as some kind of evidence that this team is on the cusp of playoff contention need to go back and take a SERIOUS look at just how bad the team played against anyone who wasn't mediocre at best. If we played in the AFC last year, we would've been lucky to get 5 wins.

In the NFC this team, last year, was what it should be. 8-8. Nobody, nobody is arguing we are a contender.

Not a contender in any form of the imagination. We beat bad teams and didn't beat the good ones. Buffalo and the Rams could have went either way. A couple of our wins could have went either way.

But we had mega bucks in FA this year. How he chooses to utilize it is up to the GM

I'm saying it's TT's job to show improvement on the record.

[Bretsky]

Let's review. We won 5 games in our division last year against two AWFUL teams (Minnesota with NO offense, Detroit with NO defense) and were handed a game by Chicago because they had NO stake in the game. Our other 3 wins came against the rest of the WORST teams in the league.


We play those same horrid teams again this year BTW, as well as having a couple supposed soft games. If we are moving forward and improving as much or more than the others, then we improve. Not that impractical IMO

[swede]

Winning only 6 or 7 or even 8 games would be disappointing, but it wouldn't necessarily mean a failure of a season. In this league of ultra-parity, Super Bowl teams have quite often sprung from similar, mediocre records in the prior season.

If the Packers win six games this year and go the the NFC championship next year than how could the season be thought a failure?

If they win six this year and six the next I'll pick up a pitchfork and join the rest of the haters.

[The Leaper]

In the NFC this team, last year, was what it should be. 8-8. Nobody, nobody is arguing we are a contender.

To improve on 8-8 is to become a contender.

If you honestly believe that Chicago would not have trounced us in week 17 if they gave even 80% effort, you are mistaken.

We were a 7 win team...with none of those wins coming against teams with winning records. Against halfway competitive talent, we often found ways to shoot ourselves in the foot at the end. And we did all this with a relatively healthy roster. A couple key injuries this year, and there is no possible way we get back to 8 wins.

So, if we avoid embarrassing shutouts...are competitive in every game...see improvement in the running game...see improvement in the red zone offense...I think you can say this year was an improvement, even if we don't get back to 8 wins again.

I'm saying it's TT's job to show improvement on the record.

I would generally agree...but simply because you have a wad of cash does not mean that players want to come to Green Bay right now. There weren't many free agents that would've made a true difference on this team.

Improvement should be seen in terms of the level of play from year to year. Thompson is banking on the thought that the young guys will continue to improve and get better. That likely won't make us significantly better this year, but likely would pay off in 2-3 more years.

So, for Thompson to be correct, guys like Jennings, Hawk, Colledge, Spitz, Moll, Rodgers, and Collins should show measureable improvement in 2007. If they do...REGARDLESS of Green Bay's record...then I think we can say the season at least shows promise for the future.

In terms of Thompson's decisions THIS OFFSEASON, I think it hinges more on the play of guys on OTHER teams. Do several of the 2nd tier guys he passed on targeting in the 2nd round perform notably better than Jackson and Jones in 2007? Does Moss have a solid year in NE? If Thompson's lack of ability to pull the trigger to obtain more "premier" guys caused us to miss potential impact players, then he should be criticized for not doing all that he could to improve the team.

I certainly agree with you in the regard that it seems very likely that Thompson will have some answering to do following the season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Three drafts, but the first was with low draft order, his 1st round pick won't play until Favre retires, and his second round pick got a career-ending injury.

but,but. . . BUT.

The but's need to stop.

The buts stop next year. You can't overlook the fact that he inherited an old team with little salary cap room, and you can't overlook that fact that he couldn't start the rebuilding until year 2. You also can't overlook the fact he inherited a 35-year-old QB that he needed to find a replacement for. So, he almost had to choice but to spend his first 1st round pick on a guy who hasn't played yet. You also can't overlook the fact that his first 2nd round pick got a career-ending injury. To me, the clock started with his 2006 offseason. This year is another building year. Next year, the team needs to show tangible results.