Say Hello To Pacman, Mr. Vick

[Bretsky]

Thanks; I also agree Vick will get off on these charges. The wealthy find a way to manipulate the truth to suit their needs. Vick will as well.

But I hope that is not the case and I hope pro sports make an example out of Ron Mexico...oops...I mean chump Vick.

[Patler]

Please don't anyone take what I am going to write in the wrong way. I think dog fighting is a disgusting event, I feel the same about bull fighting, cock fighting and any other controlled event in which animals are tortured for human entertainment..

However, the visceral reaction most of us have to watching one dog kill another dog results from the rather unique relationship between humans and dogs. We empathize with the victim dog. Do you feel the same way when other animals battle to the death? Have you ever watched a cat kill a mouse? Have you ever watched the way a mousing cat will torment and torture the mouse, letting it "escape" only to recapture it again and again? Some cats will do this an incredibly long time, until the mouse is too weak to walk, and totally submits to its death. Now you may say this is necessary, for food. But that isn't completely true. Feral cats are a big problem in some areas, and many kill for sport and exercise, often not even eating their kill.

I think that is the perspective some in dog fighting have. They think the dogs are just doing what is natural for them. Of course where their argument falls down is that it is anything but a natural setting. In nature the animals are not forced to fight. One can avoid the other, escape, etc. In the fighting pit they can not.

Hmmm, an odd perspective. I guess if we breed cats and mice both, and then stage the event while everyone cheers we could then compare the two.

See, I think you took it wrong, even though I asked you not to!

I am not in my own mind comparing the two, as I said one is a forced situation for the enterinment of humans and the other just is the way it is and was meant to be. However, in trying to understand the mind set of people who engage in dogfighting, I think they see it as just letting the dogs do what they do.

I think bullfighting, at least the traditional way in which a lance is used to sever a muscle in the neck to keep the bulls head down and the animal is pretty much tortured throughout, is just as bad as dog fighting, The difference in the reaction of society is that bulls are not nearly so lovable as dogs.

[Creepy]

Yeah, but bullfighting is also illegal in the US.

[Rastak]

Yeah, but bullfighting is also illegal in the US.

That should be illegal everywhere.

[Rastak]

Please don't anyone take what I am going to write in the wrong way. I think dog fighting is a disgusting event, I feel the same about bull fighting, cock fighting and any other controlled event in which animals are tortured for human entertainment..

However, the visceral reaction most of us have to watching one dog kill another dog results from the rather unique relationship between humans and dogs. We empathize with the victim dog. Do you feel the same way when other animals battle to the death? Have you ever watched a cat kill a mouse? Have you ever watched the way a mousing cat will torment and torture the mouse, letting it "escape" only to recapture it again and again? Some cats will do this an incredibly long time, until the mouse is too weak to walk, and totally submits to its death. Now you may say this is necessary, for food. But that isn't completely true. Feral cats are a big problem in some areas, and many kill for sport and exercise, often not even eating their kill.

I think that is the perspective some in dog fighting have. They think the dogs are just doing what is natural for them. Of course where their argument falls down is that it is anything but a natural setting. In nature the animals are not forced to fight. One can avoid the other, escape, etc. In the fighting pit they can not.

Hmmm, an odd perspective. I guess if we breed cats and mice both, and then stage the event while everyone cheers we could then compare the two.

See, I think you took it wrong, even though I asked you not to!

I am not in my own mind comparing the two, as I said one is a forced situation for the enterinment of humans and the other just is the way it is and was meant to be. However, in trying to understand the mind set of people who engage in dogfighting, I think they see it as just letting the dogs do what they do.

I think bullfighting, at least the traditional way in which a lance is used to sever a muscle in the neck to keep the bulls head down and the animal is pretty much tortured throughout, is just as bad as dog fighting, The difference in the reaction of society is that bulls are not nearly so lovable as dogs.

Oh, I would never watch a bullfight. Hell, bullriding is pretty sick from what I hear.


True about bulls though.....

[Patler]

Yeah, but bullfighting is also illegal in the US.

As it should be. But, why isn't it banned everywhere? Why is dogfighting not illegal everywhere?

None of it makes any sense to me.

[Rastak]

Yeah, but bullfighting is also illegal in the US.

As it should be. But, why isn't it banned everywhere? Why is dogfighting not illegal everywhere?

None of it makes any sense to me.

In some countries women are pretty much property. I wouldn't use what goes on elsewhere in the world as a measuring stick in the USA.

[Partial]

Yeah, but bullfighting is also illegal in the US.

That should be illegal everywhere.

Why?

How is that any different than raising a domesticated animal only to kill it? I realize one is a more grotesque method of killing the beast, but both are being raised only to be killed. The end result is the same.

Bull fighting has had a long, rich tradition in spain. I don't see why it should be illegal at all.

[MJZiggy]

The difference is that the domesticated animals are killed for FOOD, and the attempt is supposed to be to end their lives as humanely as possible (though that just invites a discussion on the maltreatment of veal, but still), bullfighting and dogfighting are done for sport. Are you planning on eating the losing dog, by chance?

[Rastak]

Yeah, but bullfighting is also illegal in the US.

That should be illegal everywhere.

Why?

How is that any different than raising a domesticated animal only to kill it? I realize one is a more grotesque method of killing the beast, but both are being raised only to be killed. The end result is the same.

Bull fighting has had a long, rich tradition in spain. I don't see why it should be illegal at all.

They have a rich history of sexually mutilating girls in Africa, is that ok because of a rich history? Partial, bullfighting is absolutely barbaric. You want to compare that to a slaughterhouse and food? Torturing a bull for an extended period of time until it eventually loses all strength and dies is the same as chopping off a chickens head?

[MJZiggy]

Partial, have you ever WATCHED a bullfight? I mean, like the whole thing, beginning to end?

[Scott Campbell]

Bull fighting has had a long, rich tradition in spain.

Well slavery had a long rich tradition in the US. Scociety evolves, or so we hope.

[Partial]

Partial, have you ever WATCHED a bullfight? I mean, like the whole thing, beginning to end?

No I have not.

[Zool]

If I'm not mistaken they end up shoving the sword down through the bull right between the shoulder blades at the end of the whole thing. They guys that do it are balsy, and I would assume a lot of them get gored.

Maybe there should be pitbull fighting thats man vs a pissed of 80 pound pitbull in a small ring. The guy has only a cape to start. Now THAT I might watch.

[Patler]

If I'm not mistaken they end up shoving the sword down through the bull right between the shoulder blades at the end of the whole thing. They guys that do it are balsy, and I would assume a lot of them get gored.
.

Balsy? Not as much as you might think. A bull fight includes the following, BEFORE the matador takes centerstage:

A rider on a horse using a long lance stabs the bull on the top of the neck to sever muscles and prevent the bull from raising his head. This might be done more than once. It is also to encourage blood loss.

Usually at least four and sometimes more pointed sharp sticks (with colorful streamers) are stabbed into the neck and left there. This too is to control neck movements, but also to promote additional blood loss.

The bull is chased in a circle by all involved to disorient him and encourage blood loss.

Only after the bull is weakened from significant blood loss and disoriented from running in circle after circle with three foot sticks stuck in his neck does the "balsy" matador enter the ring.

More horses are gored during the lancing than matodors at the end. The bull isn't already half-dead at the time the blindfolded horses encounter him.

Often the bull is still alive after multiple stabbings from the matador. Some are still alive when an ear and/or their tail is cut off and they are dragged from the ring by a horse. The coup de grace is delivered outside the ring for those that don't die in it.