Favre, Thompson, Rogers. The End.

[GBRulz]

[quote="SkinBasket"]

I have always been pissed off about the O-line in 2005. I have never once bought into the theory that we were just to strapped for cash to sign the guys on our O-line. To me, that was just a cop-out to explain Thompson's desire to get younger by weeding out older players. Did we need to get younger on the O-line? Yes, but we did not necessarily have to do it all at once like Thompson did. I do not think there is any excuse that Thompson himself or anyone else for that matter could give to explain the pathetic line that Thompson sent our team into the 2005 season with. Even after Thompson himself admitted that it was one of his biggest mistakes, people still try to defend that mistake by blaming Sherman for supposed cap problems.

I may have missed it in the 1032 argumentative threads about this issue, but I have yet to see someone explain how we would have realistically been able to keep one, much less both, of those guys and still been able to sign or draft picks. Not sure how not having dick for money under the cap that year translates to "supposed cap problems." Seems pretty real to me.

um, I didn't say that !

[SkinBasket]

It has been explained. It has been explained repeatedly. While Sherman was still in charge, before Thompson took over and dismantled the Offense, Sherman stated that the cap was tight. That he was not going to be able to sign everyone. I believe he even stated that he would probably be able to keep Darren Sharper, and either Wahle or Rivera, but not both. So, there was room to maneuver, and that is not even counting the fact that at that time, the salary cap was expected to take a huge jump the following year.

And this is just as ambiguous an "explanation" as I've ever seen. To sum up: Sherman said we might be able to do it, therefore we definitely could do it. Convincing stuff.

As opposed to your ambiguous viewpoint that says "If Teddy thinks it will work, then it will definitely work." Just because Thompson does something his way, does not mean that its the only way.

Find me a quote where I say or even infer anything like this. Just because you're in the habit of posting unfounded retardosity that you can't support doesn't mean you get to project your idiocy on the rest of us for convenience's sake.

I asked you a simple question. If you can't answer it, just admit it. We'll accept that you didn't know WTF you were talking about and move on. Don't try to be a hard-on about it and lash out like a little girl in a cat fight..

[SkinBasket]

um, I didn't say that !

yeah, something seems to have happened to our reliable quote system somewhere back there.

[cheesner]

Re: Debate

I had a big list of about 15 young players earlier in this thread. They are all good players now, but they'll be better players tomorrow and they'll need to get paid. That is the core of our team and the hard workers on that list will be rewarded with pay days. We have a lot of space now, but if TT's guys pan out, it's going to get hard to afford them some day. EVentually there will be a climax of talent. This is the year year the climb should start.

Hawk
Collins
Rodgers
Jennings
Poppinga
Spitz
Colledge
Moll
Woodson
Pickett
Jolly
Jenkins
Kampman
Barnett
Jackson
Harris extend
Driver extend
Crosby
Ryan even looks good now
Jones
We didn't draft Huff

You can't say that these guys are good players. Some of them are good, some of them show potential; but, relative to teams that have playoff/SB calibur rosters - this list doesn't get us close.

Entirely too many people have anointed Colledge and Spitz as being potential world beaters - they are both substandard G's at this point. We all see the potential for upside there, but is that pro bowl potential??? I don't see that.

Collins and Jennings have flashed, but there's a huge chasm between flashing ability, and putting it on display on an every day basis.

Rodgers has convinced me of nothing... his moving the ball against burger flippers does not put me all atwitter.

All TT has accomplished to this point, in the zero sum game, is to jettison two pro bowl calibur players in their prime, and bring in a ton - several tons actually - of young guys; and, out of that multitude, TT is hoping some will turn out.

TT has done some good things, but this team is woefully underpowered compared to the elite teams in the league. They have a long way to go.

That is the whole problem with this "debate" from Harrell and others when they defend Thompson. They annoint all the young guys as potential pro-bowl players when in reality they have done NOTHING to date.

Not one of them has produced on the field. Yep, Jennings did- for about 5 games. Colledge and Spitz show POTENTIAL but this also has not translated onto the field as of yet.

Now it look's as though Hodge is useless. It's one thing to blow a #4,5 or 6 round pick but now Teddy has blown a #3 and we still don't have a damn TE. Some teams have 3 freaking TE's(Denver) and we have NONE!

Also, let me tell you Thompson backers something. This great defense? How many are from the Sherman era?????????????

This is a very young team. It is rare for a player to come directly from college and be a star. Maybe 2-5 rookies a year at most. At this stage of their career all you can look at is potential, and the young guys listed have strong potential. Look at the difference say between Jennings and Fergy. Both were mid 2nd round picks. Fergy did okay, but didn't stand out - I never thought he had what it takes to be a star - thus limited potential. Jennings has strong potential and has flashed excellence often. I would not be surprised if he stays healthy, if he doesn't get some Pro-bowl consideration in a few years.

As far as giving TT credit for the Hawk pick, there are at least 2 GMs who probably wish they had taken him. There are always choices for a GM, I do recall some on this site strongly pushing for Vernon Davis and some for Huff. Although I agree, it would have been an easy choice for me.

[PackerBlues]

I may have missed it in the 1032 argumentative threads about this issue, but I have yet to see someone explain how we would have realistically been able to keep one, much less both, of those guys and still been able to sign or draft picks. Not sure how not having dick for money under the cap that year translates to "supposed cap problems." Seems pretty real to me.

You are assuming that the Packers had a salary cap problem that could not be fixed in any other way, other than the way that Thompson fixed it. Just as much as I am assuming that based on what Sherman had said, the O-line did not need to be torn apart the way that it was. My assumption is based on what I have heard from Sherman, your opinion is based on what? Facts? Lets hear your side of it then Skin. See if you can try to sell your viewpoint without name calling and childish rants.

And this is just as ambiguous an "explanation" as I've ever seen. To sum up: Sherman said we might be able to do it, therefore we definitely could do it. Convincing stuff.

Again, as opposed to your blind faith that Thompson did the only possible thing that he could have done? Is that your opinion or view point Skin? If so, defend your position for once. Lets hear your explanation of what did happen. Or should we just sum it up as another example of your blind faith in Teddy?

Find me a quote where I say or even infer anything like this. Just because you're in the habit of posting unfounded retardosity that you can't support doesn't mean you get to project your idiocy on the rest of us for convenience's sake.

I asked you a simple question. If you can't answer it, just admit it. We'll accept that you didn't know WTF you were talking about and move on. Don't try to be a hard-on about it and lash out like a little girl in a cat fight..

I have already defended my position, yet I have not heard anything but name calling and childish rants from you. Get out of bed on the wrong side this morning? Somebody piss in your Wheaties? That time of the month?
Do you even have a point of view of your own, or are you just here to name call and argue?

[RashanGary]

I think TT also said after letting Wahle go that you don't make bad decisisons based on money. He made it sould like he could have done something. He recently said it was one of his bigger mistakes.


I know Thompson makes mistakes. That was a big one. Walker was a mistake. Walker did come back but got injured and thigns spiraled down from there. Franks was a mistake. Manuel looks like a mistake, but with the injury and lack of time with the team, that might work out.


We're all friends here, in a long-time internet forum sort of way, let's stick together and not get all insulting just because the tone changes a little.

[woodbuck27]

OK, let me take a stab at this. are you trying to say that Thompson tried to please Packer fans (his lady?)by telling us he was not rebuilding(unconventional ideas?) ........ while bending our Offense over and F#@#ing it in the A$$ with out the courtesy of lube or a reach around ? And that someday, we will all look back at what Ted has done as a good thing??

Am I close?

EXACTLY!!

I probably misphrased, he is using lube otherwise I'm pretty sure there is no chance that it will be looked back upon as a good thing

I think that he' s leaving too much lube on to hang onto a phone to make some sort of deal to help ensure this season isn't a toss.

I just want the son of a gun to stop with the DAMN BS and get down to dealing with our needs. To stop making light of matters that many of us clearly are concerned over.

To stop telling us he can't understand why certain players elected to go to another team when his offer and pitch was just swell in his mind.

Has Ted Thompson any ego issue? YES!

I just can't determine if it's either too big or too small. The man is 'a really weird animal'. Tough, tough to figure out.

His style of managing wouldn't have given him three years in the NHL but we get him for five in Green Bay. It's like imagining a steady ration of prison food and 90% of the time spent in solitary. Painful !!

If you want to maintain your vehicle and it needs a new part you somehow find it. You don't neglect the cars general maintenance and replacement of the important parts. . . ie the battery.

If that part is essential for the smooth running and efficiency of your car you don't neglect replacing it, then go on to claim it's all good, or worse.

Announce that you expect that the car must run better now.

It's simple. You get out what you put in.

If we fail this season then TT has to be shown the door. It's a win-lose proposition for Ted Thompson. No excuses for Ted Thompson with $13 Million of CAP space and all the need we presently see on 'O' and all of those evident to us long before the draft and FA.

We the fans see those needs (saw those needs) and TT has no excuse to not see them (very clearly) being the Packer GM.

You see it then YOU fix it. You certainly give it a real try not behave as TT has this off season.

It's been total BS of late, after total neglect and failure this off season and please don't swell all up on him over hope for his April 07's draft success. We can't measure that.

[RashanGary]

I hear ya woody. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully it's a good season. I see some good things. You see some bad things. That's why the season should be fun.

to a great 2007 (hopefully, I have $100 on it )

[Zool]

I think that he' s leaving too much lube on to hang onto a phone to make some sort of deal to help ensure this season isn't a toss.

No words....i am speechless

[SkinBasket]

I may have missed it in the 1032 argumentative threads about this issue, but I have yet to see someone explain how we would have realistically been able to keep one, much less both, of those guys and still been able to sign or draft picks. Not sure how not having dick for money under the cap that year translates to "supposed cap problems." Seems pretty real to me.

You are assuming that the Packers had a salary cap problem that could not be fixed in any other way, other than the way that Thompson fixed it. Just as much as I am assuming that based on what Sherman had said, the O-line did not need to be torn apart the way that it was. My assumption is based on what I have heard from Sherman, your opinion is based on what? Facts? Lets hear your side of it then Skin. See if you can try to sell your viewpoint without name calling and childish rants.

And this is just as ambiguous an "explanation" as I've ever seen. To sum up: Sherman said we might be able to do it, therefore we definitely could do it. Convincing stuff.

Again, as opposed to your blind faith that Thompson did the only possible thing that he could have done? Is that your opinion or view point Skin? If so, defend your position for once. Lets hear your explanation of what did happen. Or should we just sum it up as another example of your blind faith in Teddy?

Find me a quote where I say or even infer anything like this. Just because you're in the habit of posting unfounded retardosity that you can't support doesn't mean you get to project your idiocy on the rest of us for convenience's sake.

I asked you a simple question. If you can't answer it, just admit it. We'll accept that you didn't know WTF you were talking about and move on. Don't try to be a hard-on about it and lash out like a little girl in a cat fight..

I have already defended my position, yet I have not heard anything but name calling and childish rants from you. Get out of bed on the wrong side this morning? Somebody piss in your Wheaties? That time of the month?
Do you even have a point of view of your own, or are you just here to name call and argue?

Oh for f*ck's sake hoser, you're the one who made the argument, not me. I asked you to defend it and you failed... miserably. You didn't "defend your position." You ignored the question. My position is that you're full of shit and you've done nothing to diminish that position.

Maybe we can try again. What do you propose the Packers should have done to find the money to sign Rivera and Wahle?

[woodbuck27]

I hear ya woody. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully it's a good season. I see some good things. You see some bad things. That's why the season should be fun.

to a great 2007 (hopefully, I have $100 on it )

Do yourself a real service and don't place a lot of money on our team this season.

We certainly won't win 8 games and I will most likely predict 5-6 wins at best. I just want to see how TT and MM handle Favre in the next two preseason games.

If he see's as little action as he did in TC 2005, then I believe that the Packers (we) are screwed big time in 2007.

Brett Favre needs work, and YES he has to be protected too.

The OL has that as a primary assignment. If Brett Favre goes down and the records don't fall. Then TT will feel more heat than any man should or deserve.

[Jerry Tagge]

Greg Olsen would of looked good in Green and Gold, right about now.

You can NOT have him, either !

Packers don't need a TE that can't block. You can keep him.

[PackerBlues]

Oh for f*ck's sake hoser, you're the one who made the argument, not me. I asked you to defend it and you failed... miserably. You didn't "defend your position." You ignored the question. My position is that you're full of shit and you've done nothing to diminish that position.

Maybe we can try again. What do you propose the Packers should have done to find the money to sign Rivera and Wahle?

Nope, I am sorry, but I did state my position. It is pretty obvious that you only read what you want to read and retain what you want to retain. Need proof? I never once said that we could have kept both Wahle and Rivera. So, either you are making shit up just to continue your one-sided argument, or you dont actually pay attention to what you read. Dont back track on me now. I asked you to state your point of view without the name calling and the childish ranting. If you cannot do it on your own, ask your mommy for help.

[PackerBlues]

Brett Favre needs work, and YES he has to be protected too.

The OL has that as a primary assignment. If Brett Favre goes down and the records don't fall. Then TT will feel more heat than any man should or deserve.

Yeah, I was not to happy with the limited amount of snaps that our #1 Offense recieved. It always seemed to me, that a lot of times, Favre needed at least as many snaps as he got in the 1st preseason game, just to get settled down. Short of that, he always seemed to perk up after taking a good hit too. I prefer the extra snaps.

As far as the O-line, and everything else for that matter, this is the year that Teddy is going to get graded on. Up till now, the apologist and faithfull supporters of Thompsosn have been able to say "only time will tell", and "just wait and see". This is it, this coming season. If our Offense can find a way to score points, it may be a very enjoyable year. If not........my guess is that even Ted's supporters will take part in riding Ted out of town on a rail.

[woodbuck27]

Brett Favre needs work, and YES he has to be protected too.

The OL has that as a primary assignment. If Brett Favre goes down and the records don't fall. Then TT will feel more heat than any man should or deserve.

Yeah, I was not to happy with the limited amount of snaps that our #1 Offense recieved. It always seemed to me, that a lot of times, Favre needed at least as many snaps as he got in the 1st preseason game, just to get settled down. Short of that, he always seemed to perk up after taking a good hit too. I prefer the extra snaps.

As far as the O-line, and everything else for that matter, this is the year that Teddy is going to get graded on. Up till now, the apologist and faithfull supporters of Thompsosn have been able to say "only time will tell", and "just wait and see". This is it, this coming season. If our Offense can find a way to score points, it may be a very enjoyable year. If not........my guess is that even Ted's supporters will take part in riding Ted out of town on a rail.

The best thing is don't expect a lot then anything that's good will be a bonus.

I will be very surprized if we do well this season. That means 8 wins on my scale.

Sadly. It's just not in the cards.

I'm not down with the hand we were dealt by TT.