Favre, Thompson, Rogers. The End.

[PackerBlues]

Ya know SkinFlute I have no idea what your problem is. I could care less. I have stated my position, and you continue to misquote me while not adding anything yourself. For the record, I never said that I wanted to keep Sharper and Wahle. I said that I recalled Sherman making a statement that he thought we could perhaps keep Sharper and maybe Wahle or Rivera. If anyone is hopeless here it is you. Considering as how the Packers entered the 2006 offseason with a league best $32 million available under the salary cap, I do not understand why anyone, would find it so hard to believe that Wahle could have been signed in 2005.
On top of that, if you had read the article I posted earlier, you would have seen that the Packers were roughly $20 million over the salary cap in 2001, and they managed to keep things together. So what makes you think that it would have been so impossible to make things work in 2005?

[SkinBasket]

You'll have to forgive me. I have a tendency to overestimate people - to believe in hope rather than reality, and sometimes that leads me to believe people are playing a part, when in fact, it is simply who they are.

I'm a disturbed person, but I guess that what I'm saying is that even a lowly person as I have lines that I feel I shouldn't cross. Demeaning the retarded is one of them and I fully and wholeheartedly apologize. Please carry on and God bless your little heart.

[Rastak]

You'll have to forgive me. I have a tendency to overestimate people - to believe in hope rather than reality, and sometimes that leads me to believe people are playing a part, when in fact, it is simply who they are.

I'm a disturbed person, but I guess that what I'm saying is that even a lowly person as I have lines that I feel I shouldn't cross. Demeaning the retarded is one of them and I fully and wholeheartedly apologize. Please carry on and God bless your little heart.

Dude, live and let live.

[SkinBasket]

Dude, live and let live.

Right on, Rastak, right on!

[Scott Campbell]

I have stated my position, and you continue to misquote me ..........

Where have you been "misquoted"?

[Bretsky]

I think that this 'new' Packers team may very well need one more season of conditioning. The O-line, in particular.
An 8-8 record - if the growth continues - would not be a major disappointment for me.
I can be patient when it's clear the path is steadily upward.
I would like to see Rodgers inherit a team with a very effective defense & excellent pass protection.

I'd agree they might need one more year of conditioning
Some of this is due to the strategy TT has taken

I don't buy for a minute fans should not expect an improved record. TT has chosen his pathway; if that means choosing to neglect free agency because what you have is fine....or for whatever reason.....so be it......but let the judging start. Accountability measured by win loss record. That's what I'll look at.

[PackerBlues]

I give up

[Bretsky]

Wahle was due a ridiculous bonus though. Wasn't it like $8-$10M? They would have had to cut several players. A lot of times cutting a player doesn't help either. That's why a few years ago, it would have cost cap room to cut Brett Favre. (Not that they would have done it.) Now, he's played long enough on his current contract that they would actually gain cap room. Cutting a guy like KGB at that time wouldn't have gained them cap room. Remember, at the time, the Packers had zero available money. In fact, they had to clear cap room just to have enough money to sign their draft picks that year. That's why Sharper and Rivera had to go along with Wahle.

The bonus was 6,000,000 if memory serves me right. It was possible, but make no mistake it would not have been easy at all. It would almost have had to include cutting Bubba, who at the time was still well thought of. And plenty of restructuring.

[RashanGary]

I'm not going to freak out about 8-8 either. I want 9-7 and the playoffs and I think it's very possible but if we're 8-8 and we're competitive against all teams and obviously on the upswing, I'm OK.

I don't think we'll have to settle for that though. I think the D is good enough and the O has enough talent to get it together by the season midpoint.

[Bretsky]

My argument all along has been that the way Ted handled things in 2005 simply was not the only way that it could have been handled. Some people refuse to accept that, and would rather just bash my opinion and name call. By some people I mean SkinFlute.

I never once suggested that we could or should have kept both Wahle and Rivera. I have simply suggested that perhaps, contracts could have been restructured, and a contract for Wahle could have been back-loaded, knowing that the salary cap was going to go up in the following year. Saying that Whale is no spring chicken now is a moot point. He was just turning 28 two years ago, Rivera was going on 33, and still had a pro-bowl in him after leaving GB. If we had been able to keep Wahle, its my opinion, that our O-line would not have suffered as great of a loss, and a young guy could have been brought up slowly to replace him by now, or by whatever time Wahle proves to be unable to perform. I have stated this same argument as clearly as I could, while some people (SkinFlute) continue to bash me for it all the while not once telling me why it could not have been done this way.

I have simply been trying to point out that there is always more than one way to skin a cat, and Teds way is not the only way.

IMO the only way to keep Wahle at that time was to pay his roster bonus of $ 6,000,000. He was going FA if we didn't do that. It was possilbe IMO, but very very hard.

Cliff Cristl believed in the star theory and said you just can't let your stars get away. He classified Wahle and Javon Walker as stars.

TT does not buy into that theory; in fact one of the good posters here (Tarlem) pointed out how TT took an approach early that did not place a ton of value on guards in the ZBS.

All water under the bridge now; TT admitted he did a shit job in 2005 of replacing the OG's and it's apparent that was true.

Now we just need this OL to grow up a heck of a lot faster than might be reasonable to expect.

Cheers,
B

[Bretsky]

I'm not going to freak out about 8-8 either. I want 9-7 and the playoffs and I think it's very possible but if we're 8-8 and we're competitive against all teams and obviously on the upswing, I'm OK.

I don't think we'll have to settle for that though. I think the D is good enough and the O has enough talent to get it together by the season midpoint.

A while back you stated quite clearly 9-7 was the mark

[RashanGary]

I've stated that 9-7 is what I expect and what I would be clearly happy with but if you go to your "what is a failure" thread, you'll see that I said I'd be OK with 8-8 but I really want 9-7.

[Bretsky]

I've stated that 9-7 is what I expect and what I would be clearly happy with but if you go to your "what is a failure" thread, you'll see that I said I'd be OK with 8-8 but I really want 9-7.

Measuring success; a thread I believe I created a long time ago. Pretty sure you clearly stated 9-7 was your stick.

Shadow has been consistent forever; he is patient enough to let GB do whatever and still keep the faith in TT

I'll be the fist to admit I'm an impatient prick...probably in real life and in judging pro teams

[Scott Campbell]

Cliff Cristl believed in the star theory and said you just can't let your stars get away. He classified Wahle and Javon Walker as stars.

I don't buy Wahle, or any guard as a star. I just don't. Hutchinson is a better guard than Wahle and he wasn't much of a difference maker in Minny.

[Bretsky]

Cliff Cristl believed in the star theory and said you just can't let your stars get away. He classified Wahle and Javon Walker as stars.

I don't buy Wahle, or any guard as a star. I just don't. Hutchinson is a better guard than Wahle and he wasn't much of a difference maker in Minny.

Hmm; I won't argue Hutchinson hasn't had much of an impact yet. I do think he's better, but I think they are in the same quality of player. Wahle was in his prime and one of the top OG's in the game when he left. I think he still is