Has McCarthy Corraled The Gunslinger?

[son of a vic]

actually he threw it right into the hands of a defender in the endzone when trying to hook up with greg jennings...

4th and 1.. tried to fit it in to bubba when we all know what happened in buffalo last season

the slant were driver caught it and broke a tackle and did a dance for the fans sitting inside the bleacher seats... driver= not open at all... jennings was wide open on the same route on the same side... you may say he completed it so it dont matter.. but it was a typical favre throw and i love ever second of it

throwing off his backfoot while being hit to donald lee on a 3 down that coulda very easily been picked had it been another QB throwing it with less arm strenght


4 instances that just came in my mind without watchin the game again.. weird

if you cant "grasp" the fact that he is still a gunslinger that just doesnt have to win a game all on his own anymore than your the one that doesnt know what he's talking about... Favre's playin like he did in his prime years because now he has 3 WR's and 2 TE's that are catchin the ball well for him.. plus RB's that are doing the same outta the backfield...

So it's just luck that determines a good or bad performance. He has no better talent on offense now, than he did a few years back whem he was throwing a ton of picks. Same guy, better decisions. It ain't all luck.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So it's just luck that determines a good or bad performance. He has no better talent on offense now, than he did a few years back whem he was throwing a ton of picks. Same guy, better decisions. It ain't all luck.

The last year that he had a healthy Walker and Driver (2004), he threw for 64%, nearly 4000 yards, 30 TDs, and 17 picks. I think everybody will take those numbers. He hasn't had these same weapons the last two years. This year, he has those weapons again. In 2005, Walker, Ferguson, Franks, and Martin all were injured--not to mention Ahman and Davenport. His numbers rebounded quite a bit last year (especially if you consider all of the drops)--even though it was pretty much a one man show again (Driver). Jennings was solid, but then got injured. The TEs stunk. The rest of the WRs were ordinary. This year, he has Driver, Jennings, Jones, and two TEs that have bounced back (and don't have to block half the time).

I'm sure it's a little of both, but talent around him has a lot to do with it.

[Joemailman]

McCarthy has managed the neat trick of corralling the gunslinger and unleashing him at the same time. He has managed to convince Favre to play within the system, and not try to win the game singlehandedly. And yet, the offense is largely dependent on the arm of Favre, at least for now. This is somewhat reminiscent of 1995 when the Packers were 26th in the league in rushing, but made it to the NFC Title Game as Favre won his first MVP.

[The Shadow]

Favre's being held accountable by a no-bs coach and we are 3-0.
I'll take it!

[mraynrand]

So it's just luck that determines a good or bad performance. He has no better talent on offense now, than he did a few years back whem he was throwing a ton of picks. Same guy, better decisions. It ain't all luck.

The last year that he had a healthy Walker and Driver (2004), he threw for 64%, nearly 4000 yards, 30 TDs, and 17 picks. I think everybody will take those numbers. He hasn't had these same weapons the last two years. This year, he has those weapons again. In 2005, Walker, Ferguson, Franks, and Martin all were injured--not to mention Ahman and Davenport. His numbers rebounded quite a bit last year (especially if you consider all of the drops)--even though it was pretty much a one man show again (Driver). Jennings was solid, but then got injured. The TEs stunk. The rest of the WRs were ordinary. This year, he has Driver, Jennings, Jones, and two TEs that have bounced back (and don't have to block half the time).

I'm sure it's a little of both, but talent around him has a lot to do with it.

This is a great point. Furthermore, even though his 2004 numbers were almost identical to his 1997 MVP numbers, what was dramatically different was the defense. Favre was required to bring the team back from behind and score points because the defense really stunk. That's also a huge difference this year, as has been pointed out. When you know you don't have to score as much, you rpobably won't take so many chances. Even iff you do, you know your mistakes probably won't be as costly. Look back to the NFC championship against Carolina - Favre had an INT that led quickly to a TD and fumbled leading to a FG. Carolina scored 10 points in that game. Think the defense made a difference?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good point. From packers.com:

The hot streak has prompted many to say Favre is toning down the risk-taking this season, managing Mike McCarthy's version of the West Coast offense better by taking the shorter throws and not gambling down the field.

While there's some truth to that, Favre isn't totally buying it.

"Everyone's on this Brett Favre bandwagon now, 'Boy, he's playing the game differently' and all these things," Favre said. "I don't see it that way."

That's because even though the statistics might indicate he's playing differently, the reason for his improved numbers, Favre said, is that the Packers have spent the first three games either ahead, tied, or trailing by only a few points, and he's right.

Of the 180 minutes in the three games, the Packers have trailed for a total of just 25 minutes and 15 seconds, or less than one of the six halves of football. They've never been down by more than one score, and they've been down by more than four points for only 4 minutes, 27 seconds, when they trailed San Diego 7-0 in the first quarter last Sunday before a field goal made it 7-3.

"We had a chance from the first snap to the last snap, it was never down by 14 or 17," Favre said. "If it's 0-0 in the third quarter, you don't have to take a gamble, but if you're down 17 points in the third quarter, at some point you have to start taking a shot."

Favre hasn't been forced to take those shots yet this season, but to say he's playing the game differently isn't accurate in his mind. He's playing the way the game situation dictates he should play, and he's always done that.

"I'm looking at the scoreboard for the most part saying, 'OK, we're in this game,' and that said, it's OK to punt, OK to take a checkdown," Favre said.

"I know we're struggling running the ball and more is expected of the passing game, but I don't think I'm going into the game with every dropback going, 'Don't turn it over, don't turn it over. Don't throw it down the field.' I'm just playing the game."

[Pacopete4]

son of a vic... looks like even favre agrees with me.. i dont think the guys changed his style of play one bit since hes entered the league.. the only difference now is that he doesnt take off and run like he used to but he is better for it because he's learned to buy more and more time finding his 3rd or 4th WR's..

"memo to "Pacopetey" My concept is prime rib, and your opinion is pathetically pointless."


you kinda look like a complete jackass now, unless favre's opinion to you is pathetically pointless and yours is still "prime rib" hahaha

[son of a vic]

son of a vic... looks like even favre agrees with me.. i dont think the guys changed his style of play one bit since hes entered the league.. the only difference now is that he doesnt take off and run like he used to but he is better for it because he's learned to buy more and more time finding his 3rd or 4th WR's..

"memo to "Pacopetey" My concept is prime rib, and your opinion is pathetically pointless."


you kinda look like a complete jackass now, unless favre's opinion to you is pathetically pointless and yours is still "prime rib" hahaha

I'm sure Brett's going to come out and say that in previous years the coaches didn't hold him accountable for his bad decisions, and he forced a lot of balls because the rest of the team sucked. It wasn't always 14-0 or 17-0 when he was throwing picks at an alarming rate. I contend that the head coach finally has the balls to tell him when he screws up. Talent does make a difference But considering there is no running game, tells me he's making better decisions than he has in the past.

If you believe everthing that come's out of Brett's mouth isn't usually water downed drivel to appease the media, then enjoy your fantasy

And by the way, I prefer to be called an incomplete jack-ass because Ive never had the pleasure of meeting you.

[the_idle_threat]

Are you saying that meeting him would "complete" you?

[mraynrand]

I contend that the head coach finally has the balls to tell him when he screws up.

Well, on this point you'd be wrong. Sherman had his O-coordinator run Favre through film study of all his INTs to show exactly where he had gone wrong. There were multiple accounts that Favre detested Rossley for constantly riding him for everything he did wrong. Now, it's possible that McCarthy has a better style, and has done a far better job of convincing Favre to 'play within himself' but until Favre speaks about this, it's just as likly that it's been a change from within Favre himself. Someday, we'll know the truth I suspect, but for now it's a mystery.

BTW, just what exactly do you mean when you say a coach has to 'hold Favre accountable for his bad throws.' What do you mean? Benching Favre? What? I'll help you out - I think the way you do this is to call all running plays after a really bad 'chuck one up' decision. I'm pretty sure McCarthy did exactly this at least once last year - calling 5 straight running plays, even on passing downs, resulting in at least on punt.

[MJZiggy]

I think there's one hell of a difference between sending your O-Coordinator in the next day to look at film and give the QB a hard time and meeting him at the sideline after a bad throw and saying "what the hell was that?" There is film of McCarthy doing this. There is also film of McCarthy meeting him at the sideline after a great catch and saying "you got away with one there" meaning that it may have been caught, but he shouldn't have thrown it. He is also there to offer unconditional praise when something is done right. There is film of this and McCarthy's comments and the players comments all reflect this.

I know you know enough about learning and training theory to see the difference in these two approaches. Instant reward or correction is far more effective than a delayed response, especially if that delayed response is some form of punishment (like being ridden in the film room)

[son of a vic]

I contend that the head coach finally has the balls to tell him when he screws up.

Well, on this point you'd be wrong. Sherman had his O-coordinator run Favre through film study of all his INTs to show exactly where he had gone wrong. There were multiple accounts that Favre detested Rossley for constantly riding him for everything he did wrong. Now, it's possible that McCarthy has a better style, and has done a far better job of convincing Favre to 'play within himself' but until Favre speaks about this, it's just as likly that it's been a change from within Favre himself. Someday, we'll know the truth I suspect, but for now it's a mystery.

BTW, just what exactly do you mean when you say a coach has to 'hold Favre accountable for his bad throws.' What do you mean? Benching Favre? What? I'll help you out - I think the way you do this is to call all running plays after a really bad 'chuck one up' decision. I'm pretty sure McCarthy did exactly this at least once last year - calling 5 straight running plays, even on passing downs, resulting in at least on punt.

I said "head coach", not a flunky that Favre doesn't respect.

[mraynrand]

I said "head coach", not a flunky that Favre doesn't respect.

That's all you got? Certainly you would know that Sherman and Rossley were 'joined at the hip' for lack of a better expression. Favre knew Rossley had Sherman's full support. Pretty weak stuff, especially since I set you up with an easy comeback.

[son of a vic]

I said "head coach", not a flunky that Favre doesn't respect.

That's all you got? Certainly you would know that Sherman and Rossley were 'joined at the hip' for lack of a better expression. Favre knew Rossley had Sherman's full support. Pretty weak stuff, especially since I set you up with an easy comeback.

Off to soccer, will respond later.