Collins coming all the way back?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Collins would be a down grade at Nickel, because he just isn't that good in man coverage.

The book on Collins is that he is fast, and can play either safety or corner.

Remind me again exactly what his strengths are?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Collins would be a down grade at Nickel, because he just isn't that good in man coverage.

The book on Collins is that he is fast, and can play either safety or corner.

Remind me again exactly what his strengths are?

I imagine his coverage is way better than what people think. I don't see a lot of balls completed on him. I don't think he's good enough to be a corner, but 4.38 speed at safety is unusual. I know it's frustrating that he's dropped some interceptions (although he did make the play against the Bears that Poppinga intercepted), but at least he's mostly in position to make those plays. He's not a bad tackler either. Safeties take bad angles. It happens to all of them. I don't think he's a horrible tackler. I like that both safeties will come up and hit people. I think our safety play has been at least adequate. After the last two years (when they were the #1 liability on defense), I'll take it.

[Tarlam!]

the Vikings made us look a lot better then we are

Merlin, they had a coupla players missing notably their star CB and WR. I also give you they had a 3rd string QB.

But, that did not impact their run defense one iota. And we ran on them. We controlled the pill to the tune of 41 some minutes of possession.

You are not doing this achievement (the shut out) enough justice, IMHO. I have read enough of your posts to realize you have a very strong opinion. Just as I wouldn't use this last Packers performance to claim this team is the NFC SB contender, I feel you shouldn't dismiss the accomplishment we just witnessed in order to support your position.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I imagine his coverage is way better than what people think. I don't see a lot of balls completed on him. I don't think he's good enough to be a corner, but 4.38 speed at safety is unusual.

His speed and coverage are fine, but he can't play corner!?

I have no opinion on his coverage skills, I just don't know. Bill Clinton would be proud of this fine parsing.

[3irty1]

Collins will almost certainly not lose his starting job but its worth thinking about. He gets caught out of position quite a bit but he does have the speed to make up for his mistakes. You can't teach speed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I imagine his coverage is way better than what people think. I don't see a lot of balls completed on him. I don't think he's good enough to be a corner, but 4.38 speed at safety is unusual.

His speed and coverage are fine, but he can't play corner!?

I have no opinion on his coverage skills, I just don't know. Bill Clinton would be proud of this fine parsing.

Being good in coverage as a safety is a far different thing than being good in coverage as a corner. Much different. I suspect you know this.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Collins will almost certainly not lose his starting job but its worth thinking about.

Its a pleasant wet dream.

I think it was Ayn speaking passionately about Jared Bush's raw potential and physical skills, moist eyes as he spoke of no ceiling for this kid.

Same speech could be made for Rouse. He's even more raw, and maybe even more impressive.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Being good in coverage as a safety is a far different thing than being good in coverage as a corner. Much different. I suspect you know this.

I'm not buying it. If a guy has stiff hips, he's not going to be that good in coverage as a safety either.

And I certainly am not suggesting that Rouse can cover! I have no idea.

Obviously corner is more demanding. But you are cutting it too fine. If he would be a failure at corner, his coverage skills are not good.

[mraynrand]

Collins will almost certainly not lose his starting job but its worth thinking about.

Its a pleasant wet dream.

I think it was Ayn speaking passionately about Jared Bush's raw potential and physical skills, moist eyes as he spoke of no ceiling for this kid.

Same speech could be made for Rouse. He's even more raw, and maybe even more impressive.

Again, based on WHAT? My assessment of Bush is based on an entire year of special teams play. His athleticism was on display on every punt coverage. By the end of the 2006 season, Bush was UNBLOCKABLE. Does Rouse have anything close to that to recommend him? I said 'ceiling UNKNOWN' for Bush, meaning that he hasn't played enough to know whether he will acquire the kind of skills/techniques that you need to be a starting cb in the NFL, but he appears to be improving.

My opinion is that Collins is better than people give him credit for - a bit above average for an NFL starter at safety. Look at the safeties playing around the league and ask which guys you'd choose over Collins. Even a guy like Roy Williams doesn't have the range in coverage that Collins has. He's a bigger hitter, but so what? The Packers don't need Collins to crush guys in their scheme.

[mraynrand]

An above average safety is occasionally seen crashing recievers to break up passes. An AAS makes an impressive open field tackle against a runner now and then. And ya, an AAS gets an interception when the opportunity is there.

Collins occasionally crashes into receivers and breaks up passes.
Collins makes an impressive open field tackle on a runner now and then (and less than a SS, because he is playing more of a FS postion with Bigby up at the line more often)
Finally, Collins gets an interception when the opportunity is there, just at a lower percentage than say, Darren Sharper, the leading or second leading INT guy among active defensive backs. So I agree with you, Collins is above average.

[Harlan Huckleby]

You're a one man organizing committee for the Nick Collins Fan Club.
Find 16 more devotees and you can call yourselves the NC-17

I don't have a big problem with NC, he's adequate. Just hoping that Rouse can upgrade the position.

To Nick, let me just say Get Well Soon! (But not too soon.)

[mraynrand]

You're a one man organizing committee for the Nick Collins Fan Club.

Not at all. I'm making the best honest assessment I can of the guy. I'd like to see someone better in that spot. I don't see just above average as anything all that great. But, you can't have pro bowlers at every position or even top 10 in the league guys at every spot. But on a defensive team that has better relative talent at both corners, at 2/3 LB positions, and across the D-line, Collins may be perfectly adequate to get the Packers where they want to be

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Collins is the weakest player on the starting defense.

Atari Bigby has made some bad plays, but he balances that with big plays, and he's improving.

Poppinga is the other "just a guy" like Collins, but again, he brings more playmaking ability than Collins.

[mraynrand]

I think Collins is the weakest player on the starting defense.

You could be right, The defense is just that good. But that doesn't change Collins' skill level. I would never characterize Collins or Poppinga as 'just a guy.' That's what you say about a Manuel at safety or a Marshall or Hollingquest at LB- Someone you throw in there who really has nothing to offer at all, and is just space filling. 'Just a guy' really applies to backups who may not even be active on gameday.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I would never characterize Collins or Poppinga as 'just a guy.' .... 'Just a guy' really applies to backups who may not even be active on gameday.

I am certain you grew up in Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average.