Rayner having troubles in KC

[The Leaper]

Not kicking isn't a dumb decision. Rayner had just missed a 30 yarder. HE was one for 3 the previous week. A game they lost by 3 points. He was at that moment 15 of 22. he made 7/10 from 30-39, and 5-8 from 40-49.

I dunno.

This is the NFL...not college. Your kickers should be reliable inside of 45 yards over half of the time...even if they aren't studs.

Not kicking the FG is pretty dumb IMO. The chances of converting the 4th down probably aren't much better than making the FG. Converting the 4th down doesn't put points on the board. Even if you convert, you still may have to settle for a FG later...and that FG try might not be that much more of a certainty than the one he could've taken in the first place.

If the confidence in Rayner was that reduced...that one miss from 30 yards forced the coach to view anything outside the 10 yard line as a four down situation....then the team should've gone out and gotten another kicker prior to the game.

[Merlin]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine. Hmm, Mason seems to make the same mistake throughout the game. In order to make that type of determination one would need some games to evaluate him. Do we have this type of data. Not really.

First, he hasn't even played ONE PROFESSIONAL SEASON.

Ok, but let's just look at the small sample size and go from there.

In the preseason he missed one field goal. He didn't attempt one after that miss, so we can't determine anything from that.

In the regular season he is 19/25 (i don't know why you can't use the most recent data). He missed on against the Giants and didn't attempt another. Nothing can be learned from that. In the washington game he missed two. Against KC he missed one. Against Carolina he missed 2.

Now, i will be honest and say that I don't know about the misses..in other words, were the really long field goals, or did he correct himself in the KC game which would disprove Merlins inane thoughts.

What we do know is that in 2 games he missed 2 field goals. In one of those games, according to NFL.com a fg was blocked. So, we can't examine self correction.

That leaves us with ONE FREAKING GAME to make a determination. That is just asinine.

What we also know is that merlin doesn't use current data.

FG%. Crosby 76%, Rayner 70%.

We also know that Mason has kicked in 10 games vs. 9.

We know that he has had more chances from outside the 30 which will result in lowering your percentage including 1-2 from over 50. Rayner is 0-1. Funny, isn't that what Herm was saying about Rayner...we will have to get closer for him. Is anyone saying that about Mason?

We also know that merlin skews the data as he doesn't break down the kicks, in other words plus 40 is all the same to him. He doesn't want you to know that rayner is 6-8 from 30-39 as opposed to mason at 8-9 from that range.

Nor does he mention that Rayner's longest kick this year is 49 yards, whereas Mason's is 53.

Mason is averaging 62.9 on kickoffs, 56 kickoffs, 11 tb, 43 returns and 19.8 on returns.

Rayner is averaging 68.9 on kickoffs, 35 kickoffs, 3 tb, 30 returns and 22.1 returns.

What does the smart packer fan glean from this. Rayner either has shorter hang time or something mysterious is happening as kick returners are deeper in their own territory yet somehow manage to return it for more yards.

What else does the smart packer fan realize from this? That mason's tb are 19.6 percent. Rayner is at 8.57%.

Or that 85.71 of Rayner's KOs are returned as opposed to 76.78.

Case closed. Any objective football fan could tell you which kicker AT THIS MOMENT is the better player.

Now it's my fault that the NFL updated it's website after I posted. WOW. It's also my fault that I posted general stats because I was too lazy to list them in their entirety. Dude, you need to lay off the crack because your post his nothing but made up shit and blind hatred for your fellow man. By the way, since when does it mean I am wrong when in every game Crosby has had a miss, he continues to kick his FG's in that direction? Oh wait, yeah I compared one game, not. Since when did I slam Crosby? In fact, if you bothered to read what I said instead of looking just at who wrote it you would see that I believe he will improve upon this in time. Rayner also is not doing a bad job as the original post implies. The stats are there for you too see but you break them down and analyze them like Crosby was licking your knob.

Do yourself a favor (and the rest of us to), don't respond to what I write because you clearly cannot tell the difference between what was written and your hatred of the person who wrote it.

For those of you who stuck up for me even if you never agree with me, thank you. However anyone who reads this post and goes off about how I am making shit up or that I am wrong, clearly isn't watching Crosby when he has a miss in a game. And anyone who says I am ripping on Crosby and praising Rayner is also, not reading what I wrote.

[Merlin]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.

I think you make valid points to support your kicker of choice. If you turn out to be accurate, we are all delighted! We win.

I at least, took issue to you deliberately wanting to ridicule a fellow poster.

I have done it. I am still guilty of it, dammit!

Mad, please start another forum where I can take therapy against my Woody bashing tendencies without disturbing the football posts.

I hear you.

I didn't ridicule him. The stats ridiculed him.

More importanty, he argued a point with flawed and misleading info. If he presents the truth w/accurate info then most of my post is not necessary.

I do agree, mad, let's get a woody/merlin area.

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

[The Leaper]

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

Bigguns always claims everyone else is dealing with false and misleading information...and demands a thesis to prove your point. That is the easiest way to counter those who disagree with you without doing anything credible yourself to prove what the facts truly are.

[Partial]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

[mmmdk]

Crosby is good yet he needs to get better. He's got the tools to do it. In the playoffs Crosby will be testet beyond anything he's ever tried before as a kicker. If he's successful then he gets a boots to his confidence that'll benifit him for the future.

[The Leaper]

Confidence is such a huge part of kicking. If you lose that edge, it is difficult to recover.

[Merlin]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

There was one today, one of many. Read.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Not kicking isn't a dumb decision. Rayner had just missed a 30 yarder. HE was one for 3 the previous week. A game they lost by 3 points. He was at that moment 15 of 22. he made 7/10 from 30-39, and 5-8 from 40-49.

I dunno.

This is the NFL...not college. Your kickers should be reliable inside of 45 yards over half of the time...even if they aren't studs.

Not kicking the FG is pretty dumb IMO. The chances of converting the 4th down probably aren't much better than making the FG. Converting the 4th down doesn't put points on the board. Even if you convert, you still may have to settle for a FG later...and that FG try might not be that much more of a certainty than the one he could've taken in the first place.

If the confidence in Rayner was that reduced...that one miss from 30 yards forced the coach to view anything outside the 10 yard line as a four down situation....then the team should've gone out and gotten another kicker prior to the game.

that would be logical. I can agree that is as big a mistake as not kicking.

But, i think sometimes you have to get a temperature of your players..like in basketball or baseball.

either way, his hand was forced by rayner's poor play.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Crosby seems to make the same mistake the entire game. If he is hitting right, he continues to hit right. If he is hitting left he continues to hit left. I am sure all that will come with time. I don't think it's been a great week for some very good kickers. Look at Vinitari, he over compensated each time and missed what? 4 in a row?. Crosby seems to be not wanting to make that mistake so I suspect his corrections are under compensating. He will find the right compensation level.

Rayner isn't under performing by any means. But of course those that are all high on Crosby won't see it that way. Anything to bash a former player they don't like.

I like Crosby but I also liked Rayner. I would have been happy either way. I like Crosby's more consistent kick offs and hopefully the other mistakes he has made with correct themselves with time. I feel the same way about Rayner although kicking in KC is a lot different then kicking at Lambeau. I think he needs another season in the same environment to see what he is made of.

Comparison:

Crosby 18/22 82%
Rayner 13/17 76%

Crosby 12/13 20+
Rayner 9/11 20+

Crosby 5/8 40+
Rayner 4/6 40+

Crosby 50 kick offs for 3,129 yards 62.6 ave with 10 touch backs, return average 20 yards, 1 kick out of bounds.

Rayner 32 kick offs for 2,206 yards 68.9 ave with 3 touch backs, return average 22.5 yards, 2 out of bounds kicks.

They both have had a field goal blocked although nfl.com doesn't list Crosby's for whatever reason.

Well, here is another one of Merlin's fine posts. Except it is flawed as always.

Let's examine. Hmm, Mason seems to make the same mistake throughout the game. In order to make that type of determination one would need some games to evaluate him. Do we have this type of data. Not really.

First, he hasn't even played ONE PROFESSIONAL SEASON.

Ok, but let's just look at the small sample size and go from there.

In the preseason he missed one field goal. He didn't attempt one after that miss, so we can't determine anything from that.

In the regular season he is 19/25 (i don't know why you can't use the most recent data). He missed on against the Giants and didn't attempt another. Nothing can be learned from that. In the washington game he missed two. Against KC he missed one. Against Carolina he missed 2.

Now, i will be honest and say that I don't know about the misses..in other words, were the really long field goals, or did he correct himself in the KC game which would disprove Merlins inane thoughts.

What we do know is that in 2 games he missed 2 field goals. In one of those games, according to NFL.com a fg was blocked. So, we can't examine self correction.

That leaves us with ONE FREAKING GAME to make a determination. That is just asinine.

What we also know is that merlin doesn't use current data.

FG%. Crosby 76%, Rayner 70%.

We also know that Mason has kicked in 10 games vs. 9.

We know that he has had more chances from outside the 30 which will result in lowering your percentage including 1-2 from over 50. Rayner is 0-1. Funny, isn't that what Herm was saying about Rayner...we will have to get closer for him. Is anyone saying that about Mason?

We also know that merlin skews the data as he doesn't break down the kicks, in other words plus 40 is all the same to him. He doesn't want you to know that rayner is 6-8 from 30-39 as opposed to mason at 8-9 from that range.

Nor does he mention that Rayner's longest kick this year is 49 yards, whereas Mason's is 53.

Mason is averaging 62.9 on kickoffs, 56 kickoffs, 11 tb, 43 returns and 19.8 on returns.

Rayner is averaging 68.9 on kickoffs, 35 kickoffs, 3 tb, 30 returns and 22.1 returns.

What does the smart packer fan glean from this. Rayner either has shorter hang time or something mysterious is happening as kick returners are deeper in their own territory yet somehow manage to return it for more yards.

What else does the smart packer fan realize from this? That mason's tb are 19.6 percent. Rayner is at 8.57%.

Or that 85.71 of Rayner's KOs are returned as opposed to 76.78.

Case closed. Any objective football fan could tell you which kicker AT THIS MOMENT is the better player.

Now it's my fault that the NFL updated it's website after I posted. WOW. It's also my fault that I posted general stats because I was too lazy to list them in their entirety. Dude, you need to lay off the crack because your post his nothing but made up shit and blind hatred for your fellow man. By the way, since when does it mean I am wrong when in every game Crosby has had a miss, he continues to kick his FG's in that direction? Oh wait, yeah I compared one game, not. Since when did I slam Crosby? In fact, if you bothered to read what I said instead of looking just at who wrote it you would see that I believe he will improve upon this in time. Rayner also is not doing a bad job as the original post implies. The stats are there for you too see but you break them down and analyze them like Crosby was licking your knob.

Do yourself a favor (and the rest of us to), don't respond to what I write because you clearly cannot tell the difference between what was written and your hatred of the person who wrote it.

For those of you who stuck up for me even if you never agree with me, thank you. However anyone who reads this post and goes off about how I am making shit up or that I am wrong, clearly isn't watching Crosby when he has a miss in a game. And anyone who says I am ripping on Crosby and praising Rayner is also, not reading what I wrote.

That is the whole point. How you can you look at one game and make any sort of determination.

Lazy: Exactly. therefore what you think is true isn't. If i look at general stats that tells me very little. What don't you comprehend.

It is very easy to understand. In baseball we have 300 hitters that hit 200 in the clutch. Yet, your argument would be he is a good hitter.

Made up: Dude i made nothing up. You are an imbecile.

Rayner: he wasn't a good kicker for us. He wasn't for KC.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

crow: you mean like you do when you claim AT&T runs the internet. And you were wong. Among all the other wrong things you claim.

If you wanna pile on go ahead, but at least be factual.

[The Leaper]

That...and Herm's clock management skills are terrible. He wasted a time out to challenge a play...which he lost, losing another time out.

Herm seems like a good guy, but he does some crazy stuff.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Anyone who watched the KC/Oakland game and thinks Rayner was the right choice has to have their head examined.

Edwards goes for it on 4th down because he had NO CONFIDENCE in Rayner making a 41 yarder.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Rayner cut.

I think you make valid points to support your kicker of choice. If you turn out to be accurate, we are all delighted! We win.

I at least, took issue to you deliberately wanting to ridicule a fellow poster.

I have done it. I am still guilty of it, dammit!

Mad, please start another forum where I can take therapy against my Woody bashing tendencies without disturbing the football posts.

I hear you.

I didn't ridicule him. The stats ridiculed him.

More importanty, he argued a point with flawed and misleading info. If he presents the truth w/accurate info then most of my post is not necessary.

I do agree, mad, let's get a woody/merlin area.

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

Analysis is wrong? Hmm. Which part? Please illuminate us as to what conclusion i've drawn that is wrong.

Get help: LOL. Physician, heal theyself.

[Partial]

Just ignore him. I've never once seen him ever admit any inaccuracies in any of his posts. Nor was he willing to eat any crow in the eat crow thread. Don't waste your time.

crow: you mean like you do when you claim AT&T runs the internet. And you were wong. Among all the other wrong things you claim.

If you wanna pile on go ahead, but at least be factual.

I have encouraged you to do your homework but you won't. Don't go there again unless you're willing to do some reading. I am correct.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Do you actually READ? WOW, my stats aren't flawed, your analysis of the entire post is.

Man, get help.

Bigguns always claims everyone else is dealing with false and misleading information...and demands a thesis to prove your point. That is the easiest way to counter those who disagree with you without doing anything credible yourself to prove what the facts truly are.

No. I rarely claim false. I ask just for some facts. There is a difference.

I never said Merlin's info was false, just not detailed enough to make the case.

The easiest way to make your point is to have some substantive material..otherwise it is all subjective..then, we can just dance forever.

I prefer to narrow it down and be conclusive. I prefer stats and numbers...like mr. bean. As a longtime baseball fan you can draw conclusions from #s.