Moktada al-Sadr, Emperor of Iraq

[texaspackerbacker]

First of all, I say again, the whole discussion of drugs is a diversion away from slavery--which is itself, a diversion away from the original--THE INSTITUTIONALIZED EVIL WHICH IS PART AND PARCEL OF THE MUSLIM RELIGION.

As for what you said, Tyrone, now you are trying to change the direction of the discussion from individuals to cultures.

And you STILL are trying to EXCUSE the addicts of drugs and NOT excuse/condemn the addicts of slavery.

The way it is with BOTH slavery and drugs, if suppliers had never injected that element into the lives of the addicts, then there would be no addiction. On an INDIVIDUAL basis, take away the product, and you will 1. have no new addicts and 2. have very little choice for existing addicts except to take steps--help if needed--to get cleaned up or die--or maybe leave the country.

Perhaps you don't like limiting choices to those for druggies. That is pretty much what the choice was for slaveholders after the Civil War, though. I'm just saying it's inconsistent not to apply the same standard to BOTH addictions.

[MJZiggy]

The way it is with BOTH slavery and drugs, if suppliers had never injected that element into the lives of the addicts, then there would be no addiction. On an INDIVIDUAL basis, take away the product, and you will 1. have no new addicts and 2. have very little choice for existing addicts except to take steps--help if needed--to get cleaned up or die--or maybe leave the country.

If this is true, please explain huffing to me.

[Partial]

That's because the medical experts are fucking pussies. Anyone can quit doing anything, it takes will power and self control. It is hard work, but what isn't that benefits you!?!? That's such a load of BS.

I have no use for someone who is so mentally weak they cannot break a horrible, self-destroying habit.

Right. I guess this is another of the 7 topics you know something about. When you aren't coding you happen to know about drugs and their interaction with the brain.

No man, I am just less of a pussy and am mentally strong. How many kids are diagnosed as depressed or have ADD because they are mentally weak?!? Many. The medical community is a joke. They would rather drug everyone up and take their money then actually help someone by telling them to get out there, work hard, stop being a pussy, and do what it takes to succeed.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

First of all, I say again, the whole discussion of drugs is a diversion away from slavery--which is itself, a diversion away from the original--THE INSTITUTIONALIZED EVIL WHICH IS PART AND PARCEL OF THE MUSLIM RELIGION.

As for what you said, Tyrone, now you are trying to change the direction of the discussion from individuals to cultures.

And you STILL are trying to EXCUSE the addicts of drugs and NOT excuse/condemn the addicts of slavery.

The way it is with BOTH slavery and drugs, if suppliers had never injected that element into the lives of the addicts, then there would be no addiction. On an INDIVIDUAL basis, take away the product, and you will 1. have no new addicts and 2. have very little choice for existing addicts except to take steps--help if needed--to get cleaned up or die--or maybe leave the country.

Perhaps you don't like limiting choices to those for druggies. That is pretty much what the choice was for slaveholders after the Civil War, though. I'm just saying it's inconsistent not to apply the same standard to BOTH addictions.

Really? Which supplier introduced alcohol?

Which supplier introduced hallucinogens to the native americans? Which supplier introduced coca leaves to the indians? Which supplier introduced kwat.

Humans have long searched for drugs. It is in our systems.

No one is excusing anything. All i ever said was that the demand creates supply.

What is hilarious is that you now are going against basic econ. Yep, supply makes demand. LOL

We got a ton of supply of houses right now...guess we should expect a lot of demand.

Demand spurrs supply. Labor was necessary...and there wasn't cheap labor..so they needed slaves..or indentured servants.

[texaspackerbacker]

Actually, Tyrone, you blundered into a lot of truth.

I don't know who first introduced alcoholic beverages, but if nobody ever did, then you wouldn't have alcohol addicts--could you possibly argue against that idea?

And I suppose your point regarding the drugs you mentioned is that they are "natural". Yeah, that's true, but somebody way back had to discover the high they produced or whatever, thus becoming the original supplier. Anyway, if they didn't exist, you, indisputably, wouldn't have people addicted to them. The only difference is that unlike refined drugs, alcoholic drinks, slavery, etc. you can't really assign blame to a specific supplier with so-called "natural". And no, don't even think about including marijuana, opiates, cocaine, etc. in that group, as those generally are planted like crops, harvested and refined.

As for slavery, if the slaves had never been imported, planters could have provided their own labor or paid for it. Costs would have been higher; It would have been less efficient; But if all the competitors had to do the same--do without slavery also, then there would have been no competitive disadvantage. People STILL would have grown cotton, tobacco, sugar, etc. even without slaves--just like many people survive just fine without any drugs to use and abuse.

Your economics is flawed, Tyrone. Sure, demand spurs supply. However, it does NOT create it from the beginning. It is SUPPLY and SUPPLIERS that create the original DEMAND--like the drug pusher passing out free samples at the school grounds--planting the seeds of necessity or at least desire. Without that, BOTH in the realm of drug use and slavery, you simply wouldn't have the addiction. You don't need or desire that which does not exist--and if you do, it's only a vague fantasy, not an addiction.

[MJZiggy]

I'm serious Tex, if you need initial suppliers, explain huffing...

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm serious Tex, if you need initial suppliers, explain huffing...

Those things, like the stuff Tyrone brought up, exist--were supplied by somebody.If they didn't exist/were not supplied, they wouldn't have abusers/addicts. Could you possibly disagree? You are confusing lack of supply/supplier with lack of a BLAMEWORTHY supplier. The stuff they huff (no rhyme intended) generally has legitimate uses too, unlike most hard drugs, and unlike slavery. If you are looking for somebody to blame, I guess it would be the first person to figure out he could get high off the stuff.

Even if you happen to scratch around enough and find an exception, it would just be the exception that proves the rule.

And all of this, whether intended to be or not, is just a diversion from the REAL discussion--slavery, which originated with Muslims wholesaling the slaves provided by rival black tribes. That's straight out of Roots, isn't it?

And even THAT discussion is a diversion from the REAL REAL discussion, which is the evil barbaric tyrannical genocidal ignorant attitudes and behaviors that are STILL institutionalized in the Muslim religion even in the present.

[MJZiggy]

Yes I disagree!! They are common household agents. No one needed to push them, kids were experimenting, TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO GET HIGH.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes I disagree!! They are common household agents. No one needed to push them, kids were experimenting, TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO GET HIGH.

So what's your point? By your own admission, this is an entirely different situation than the supplying of hard drugs, and even more different than the supplying of slaves by African Muslims.

Why even bring up such an admitted irrelevancy except to try and divert from the real discussion(s)?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yes I disagree!! They are common household agents. No one needed to push them, kids were experimenting, TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO GET HIGH.

So what's your point? By your own admission, this is an entirely different situation than the supplying of hard drugs, and even more different than the supplying of slaves by African Muslims.

Why even bring up such an admitted irrelevancy except to try and divert from the real discussion(s)?

Because it shows their is a demand for "drugs." No matter how you try and classify it..americans and humans like drugs...alcohol, asprin, pot, coke, etc.

[MJZiggy]

Kids are killing themselves snorting canned air trying to get a high. Huffing is seeking out a high. People put themselves at risk all the time taking medications etc. either differently than how they were intended or drugs that weren't prescribed to them to try and hunt down a good high. People risk jail to get high. Funny how the moment slavery became illegal, it ended. No so much for drugs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Kids are killing themselves snorting canned air trying to get a high. Huffing is seeking out a high. People put themselves at risk all the time taking medications etc. either differently than how they were intended or drugs that weren't prescribed to them to try and hunt down a good high. People risk jail to get high. Funny how the moment slavery became illegal, it ended. No so much for drugs.

I'm not trying to minimize the badness of this "huffing" thing. I'm just saying it's apples and oranges and grapefruit from a discussion of hard drug use as well as a discussion of slavery.

I'd rather discuss the undeniable institutionalized evil of the Muslim religion, but if you want to go off on this drug and slavery tangent, I'll do that too.

You talk about how slavery ended when it became illegal, and drug use did not.

Two things about that:

First, making slavery illegal had nothing to do with demand--the cotton still needed to be picked, etc.. It took away the SUPPLY--illegal human cargo being a lot harder to smuggle in, and very easy to detect in use.

Second, arguably your choice of diversion--huffing--is the equivalent of what happened in the south for a hundred years or so after the Civil War. The aerosol spray is a legal product used to get around the outlawed hard drugs--just like all the poll taxes, segregation, tenant farms, etc. were ways to have de facto slavery. Just ask a "black" person like Tyrone.

Tyrone, maybe in the circles you travel, there is a high demand for the various drugs, etc. you mentioned, but that situation is EXTREMELY much less prevalent among the huge majority which I like to call good normal Americans. Ditto that for the extremely overrated prevalence of huffing.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Kids are killing themselves snorting canned air trying to get a high. Huffing is seeking out a high. People put themselves at risk all the time taking medications etc. either differently than how they were intended or drugs that weren't prescribed to them to try and hunt down a good high. People risk jail to get high. Funny how the moment slavery became illegal, it ended. No so much for drugs.

I'm not trying to minimize the badness of this "huffing" thing. I'm just saying it's apples and oranges and grapefruit from a discussion of hard drug use as well as a discussion of slavery.

I'd rather discuss the undeniable institutionalized evil of the Muslim religion, but if you want to go off on this drug and slavery tangent, I'll do that too.

You talk about how slavery ended when it became illegal, and drug use did not.

Two things about that:

First, making slavery illegal had nothing to do with demand--the cotton still needed to be picked, etc.. It took away the SUPPLY--illegal human cargo being a lot harder to smuggle in, and very easy to detect in use.

Second, arguably your choice of diversion--huffing--is the equivalent of what happened in the south for a hundred years or so after the Civil War. The aerosol spray is a legal product used to get around the outlawed hard drugs--just like all the poll taxes, segregation, tenant farms, etc. were ways to have de facto slavery. Just ask a "black" person like Tyrone.

Tyrone, maybe in the circles you travel, there is a high demand for the various drugs, etc. you mentioned, but that situation is EXTREMELY much less prevalent among the huge majority which I like to call good normal Americans. Ditto that for the extremely overrated prevalence of huffing.

Circles i travel in? LOL

I live in the United States which has been fighting a "war on drugs" for over 30 years...with no visible signs of success. Drug use has not gone down...same overall percentages since the end of the 19th century.

Let's see..marijuana scares, lsd scare, coke scare, heroin scare, crack scare, meth scare....hmmn...yep there is no demand.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nobody said no demand--just that you are trying to give an EXTREMELY false picture--greatly inflating the percentage of that kind of half-assed loser.

If that's what you see, the yes, it's the limited circles you travel in, and NOT America in general.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tyrone, maybe in the circles you travel,

Tyrone doesn't travel in circles. He struts into the room.