THIS is who ICE throws out of the country first?

[texaspackerbacker]

Very interesting. Thank you both for responding.

I'm pleased that Mad didn't echo Harlan's "it's immoral to take advantage of them by having them stay illegal and work cheap". But you don't want to budge from amnesty. OK, I can sort of respect that position, just not agree with it.

Cheese, I thought what I was talking about was the "middle ground"--basically just leaving well enough alone other than closing the border. Your case by case middle ground has possibilities too, but I really don't think they would turn themselves in, even under those circumstances, so it STILL would take a major round-up with the severe negative implications, up and maybe including an "insurgency" right here in this country.

And if you do legalize the ones you don't send back, then you do away with the cheap labor thing--which really IS significant.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Then these illegals should have to apply for documentation, NOT citizenship.

Interesting that your red line is that those people must never become citizens. Why is this so important to you? Funny, we never treated the Norwegians this way when they came here to work.

There are two issues:
1) What do we do about the 20 million illegals who are already here?
2) How do we control the flow of illegal immigration into the country?

The anti-immigrant folks are concerned about both issues, but they're particularly worried about #1, the existing immigrants getting legal status. Problem #2 is what matters to the future of the country, and there are effective ways to deal with this problem if we'll just get serious about it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And if you do legalize the ones you don't send back, then you do away with the cheap labor thing--which really IS significant.

First of all, to just turn a blind eye to illegal immigration as a policy is nuts. You leave a huge population of people vulnerable to deportation, and therefore they have no rights to decent treatment. That's wrong. And on the other side, employers don't want to carry the risk of being busted for hiring illegals. Maybe the local public or police is OK with ignoring the law today, but that can change suddenly tomorrow.

The solution is a guest worker program that includes a path to citizenship. This pool of people will still provide a supply of relatively cheap labor.

[TheCheese]

Then these illegals should have to apply for documentation, NOT citizenship.

Interesting that your red line is that those people must never become citizens. Why is this so important to you? Funny, we never treated the Norwegians this way when they came here to work.

There are two issues:
1) What do we do about the 20 million illegals who are already here?
2) How do we control the flow of illegal immigration into the country?

The anti-immigrant folks are concerned about both issues, but they're particularly worried about #1, the existing immigrants getting legal status. Problem #2 is what matters to the future of the country, and there are effective ways to deal with this problem if we'll just get serious about it.

Red my whole damn post please before you respond. Who said I want them never to become citizens, read it again.

[texaspackerbacker]

And if you do legalize the ones you don't send back, then you do away with the cheap labor thing--which really IS significant.

First of all, to just turn a blind eye to illegal immigration as a policy is nuts. You leave a huge population of people vulnerable to deportation, and therefore they have no rights to decent treatment. That's wrong. And on the other side, employers don't want to carry the risk of being busted for hiring illegals. Maybe the local public or police is OK with ignoring the law today, but that can change suddenly tomorrow.

The solution is a guest worker program that includes a path to citizenship. This pool of people will still provide a supply of relatively cheap labor.

No, it is NOT wrong. They are illegal. They SHOULD be vulnerable to deportation. They just shouldn't be deported unless they get in trouble for some secondary violation--and then, they SHOULD be gone with no benefit of due process. After all, even as illegals, they still DO get due process if their crime is serious enough to go to prison. I'm not sure I like that, but it is what it is.

The guest worker program would take away their incentive to work for extremely low pay--which is still a helluva lot more than they make in Mexico. THAT would be wrong! I know you disagree, but to me, if we are going to look the other way and let them enjoy OUR country, we should get something for it--which we do with cheaper prices of things across the board--not just the particular jobs they actually do.

I still say, it is win/win the way it is now. Don't mess with a good thing--other than taking control of the border, of course. And I think most illegals would agree.

This is just like when liberals raise the minimum wage--and in the process, hurt a lot of minimum wage workers who lose their jobs because the employer can't afford them--do-gooder naivete.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Red my whole damn post please before you respond. Who said I want them never to become citizens, read it again.

OK, I stand corrected, it sounds like you are at least open to a limited trickle of new citiizens. But you also are enthusiastic about deporting people who don't have family ties.

Lets get down to brass tacks. Of the 20 million illegals in the country, approximately how many would you be willing to see on some track to citizenship? My number would be 20 million minus those with criminal records.

Again, there is general agreement about stemming or halting the flow of illegal immigrants into the country. I don't much mind if people want to erect a Great Wall around the country. The controversy is over what to do about the ones already here.