DNC

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm comfortable with that, as I expend more time and words--both quantitatively and qualitatively--probably than anybody else here explaining exactly how and why those assholes--oops, rectums--that you mentioned, Durban, Reid, Kerry--add to that Obama, for sure--really ARE America-hating assholes (oops, rectums).

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

[HowardRoark]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

[texaspackerbacker]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

[HowardRoark]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

Funny you bring this up. Lately this is the question that I ask myself all the time......"to what end do the Lefties want to give away all their freedoms to Big Government?"

I think a great majority of them don't even realize what they are doing. Sheep. These are the people that can be swayed by logical, well thought out arguments (I would hope). As I mentioned last night, the thing that worries me is how they have taken over all the levers of communication. The sheep don't even know where they are being led or why.

I agree with everything you say. I just think that the battle has to be a battle of ideas.

[rdanomly]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

Funny you bring this up. Lately this is the question that I ask myself all the time......"to what end do the Lefties want to give away all their freedoms to Big Government?"

I think a great majority of them don't even realize what they are doing. Sheep. These are the people that can be swayed by logical, well thought out arguments (I would hope). As I mentioned last night, the thing that worries me is how they have taken over all the levers of communication. The sheep don't even know where they are being led or why.

I agree with everything you say. I just think that the battle has to be a battle of ideas.

Which freedoms are you referring to that they are giving away?

[Maxie the Taxi]

mraynrand, can you recommend a particular Stanley Jaki book that would be a good, get-your-feet-wet read?

[mraynrand]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

I prefer to use the word evil Tex. I think Durbin, Murtha, Reid, and Kerry are evil. I think that they know what they are doing is considered morally wrong in almost all ethical systems, yet they feel they can get away with it. Each of them has violated the "bearing false witness against thy neighbor" commandment in knowing and obvious ways for political and personal gain. Then there are their fellow travelers that are in it for the power and there are those that have been hoodwinked, or deliberately taught falsehoods by corrupt, marxist (sorry 'critical theory') professors in college. Not everyone inflicting their folly is doing so with the intent to harm the country, and it's important to differentiate. But the words of slippery guys like Obama have to be dissected, to show the naive how they are being manipulated, and to show how ideas pushed by Obama are destructive. You're never going to change the Kerrys of the world, but you might pick off some of their fellow travelers and even more important, you might steer some misguided students back on track. But a lot of them have been taught to 'think' emotionally. You know, the Hollywood crap of finding truth in 'trusting your heart' or 'search your feelings' or 'it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe' (those are actual lines from movies). It's a hard slog, but if you hurl insults, you'll tend to get an emotional reaction and then all possibility for rational debate ends - at least with the emoting 'thinkers'

[HowardRoark]

Which freedoms are you referring to that they are giving away?

What kind of trans fats I can eat.

What kind of light bulb I can use.

What kind of health care I can have.

How to spend MY hard earned money.

How to invest my retirement funds.

If I live in Oregon....freedom to pump my own gas.

To ski off piste if I want to.

Come to thnk of it.....the damn trial lawyers are just as culpable.


.....for starters

[mraynrand]

mraynrand, can you recommend a particular Stanley Jaki book that would be a good, get-your-feet-wet read?

'The Limits of a Limitless Science ' and 'Miracles and Physics' are collections of essays and though some of it is dated, the basic principles are eternal

'Angles Apes and Men' is a good short book

'Savior of Science' contains the 'complete argument' and is a bit thick, but not too long.

Just a bit of a warning: Jaki is a Benedictine priest, so that does influence everything he writes. Every so often, you might be asking "would he make that argument if he weren't in the faith?" I don't know if that will put you off, but I thought I'd mention it. There is one last book I have at home that is pretty massive, and I can't recall the title. But that can wait.

[texaspackerbacker]

You, on the other hand, either deny reality or distort it out of some silly political correctness which thoroughly insults the intelligence of that 24 year old you describe.

How? Specifically.

Do you accept that the leftists you mentioned and others, including Obama have a horribly ANTI-AMERICAN agenda--deliberately tearing down American pride and power? Do you accept that these same ....... I can't think of a better word than assholes ...... are deliberately destroying the moral fiber of the country by pushing abortion and the gay agenda? Do you accept that these ..... whatevers ....... are deliberately trying to tear down our free enterprise capitalist economy and move toward socialism? Do you accept that these same leftists are DELIBERATELY pushing a horrendous to America agenda based on the fiction of manmade global warming--knowing the havoc it would wreak on our economy?

The key word here is DELIBERATELY. I suspect you agree that these leftists are on the wrong side of all these and other issues. I question, however, whether you see them as hating America and our traditions, heritage, and lifestyle to the extent that their positions are not mere folly, but INTENTIONALLY aimed at harming America. THAT is the reality I think you are denying. Correct me if I'm wrong--I'd be glad to hear it.

Funny you bring this up. Lately this is the question that I ask myself all the time......"to what end do the Lefties want to give away all their freedoms to Big Government?"

I think a great majority of them don't even realize what they are doing. Sheep. These are the people that can be swayed by logical, well thought out arguments (I would hope). As I mentioned last night, the thing that worries me is how they have taken over all the levers of communication. The sheep don't even know where they are being led or why.

I agree with everything you say. I just think that the battle has to be a battle of ideas.

Not to keep harping on it (on this great day), especially since I have a great deal of respect for both you, Howard, and Aynrand, but I still didn't quite hear the acceptance of the DELIBERATELY aspect. I would concede that many--maybe even a majority of Democrat voters are "sheep" and just don't realize the harm their leaders are trying to perpetrate on America. But those leftist leaders--the "evil" ones mentioned above, the "worthless politicians" described, who indeed are that unmentionable body orifice you don't want me to call them, unequivocally DO know exactly the deleterious consequences of what they want to inflict on us.

Furthermore, while all the items--freedoms lost--that you mentioned are far from trivial, it goes WAY BEYOND THAT all the way to bringing down America from the position of dominant power for good in the world and most comfortable and prosperous nation in the world. These ...... there's than unsayable word again ....... want to CHANGE our way of life. Indeed, if you examine the last few decades, they've done a pretty damned sinister job already of pushing that CHANGE. Enough with that God damned CHANGE. America is the greatest country in the world, and we don't need stinking leftist ......... there's that word again ........ to CHANGE it downward--as they surely would--DELIBERATELY.

[mraynrand]

Not to keep harping on it (on this great day), especially since I have a great deal of respect for both you, Howard, and Aynrand, but I still didn't quite hear the acceptance of the DELIBERATELY aspect. I would concede that many--maybe even a majority of Democrat voters are "sheep" and just don't realize the harm their leaders are trying to perpetrate on America. But those leftist leaders--the "evil" ones mentioned above, the "worthless politicians" described, who indeed are that unmentionable body orifice you don't want me to call them, unequivocally DO know exactly the deleterious consequences of what they want to inflict on us.

That's why I called them evil, because with those I mentioned, I am certain they absolutely knew what they were doing was morally wrong and harmful to the country.

[Maxie the Taxi]

mraynrand, can you recommend a particular Stanley Jaki book that would be a good, get-your-feet-wet read?

'The Limits of a Limitless Science ' and 'Miracles and Physics' are collections of essays and though some of it is dated, the basic principles are eternal

'Angles Apes and Men' is a good short book

'Savior of Science' contains the 'complete argument' and is a bit thick, but not too long.

Just a bit of a warning: Jaki is a Benedictine priest, so that does influence everything he writes. Every so often, you might be asking "would he make that argument if he weren't in the faith?" I don't know if that will put you off, but I thought I'd mention it. There is one last book I have at home that is pretty massive, and I can't recall the title. But that can wait.

Thanks. And I'm not at all put off. Wasn't Aquinas a Benedictine? Plus, I've been intrigued with Ben Stein's film work.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Man, you just can't read this whole thread and not see what a truly empty person Tyrone is. Arguing with him is like nailing jello to a tree. 20 posts and I've got NO IDEA what his core values are. I do know he can argue like a 5 year old though.

Have you ever considered that i choose not to reveal things. Guess the avatar Tyrone Bigguns wasn't enough of a clue for you.

But, i think you are really just dumb. Tex and others certainly could tell you what i stand for....the death of america.

Ty stands for:

1. Free speech
2. Less gov't intrusion...ie, drugs, abortion, gov't spying, etc.
3. Giving people a handup
4. Leading through example
5. Not torturing
6. Not lying to the people like Bush did
7. Energy independence...which Ty was talking about long before you conservs were
8. Rounding up all religious nutjobs and putting them in Texas with tex.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Republicans and conservs are thinkers.

Dems and their followers are sheep. Definitey not smart enough to see the truth and just need your help to find it.

Hmm, who is elitist.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Man, you just can't read this whole thread and not see what a truly empty person Tyrone is. Arguing with him is like nailing jello to a tree. 20 posts and I've got NO IDEA what his core values are. I do know he can argue like a 5 year old though.

Have you ever considered that i choose not to reveal things. Guess the avatar Tyrone Bigguns wasn't enough of a clue for you.

But, i think you are really just dumb. Tex and others certainly could tell you what i stand for....the death of america.

Ty stands for:

1. Free speech
2. Less gov't intrusion...ie, drugs, abortion, gov't spying, etc.
3. Giving people a handup
4. Leading through example
5. Not torturing
6. Not lying to the people like Bush did
7. Energy independence...which Ty was talking about long before you conservs were
8. Rounding up all religious nutjobs and putting them in Texas with tex.

We must be brothers, brother Ty . I'm for everything you are. (With the possible exception of #8.) (And I'd have to know what exactly you mean by #3.)