Stick a fork in this moron.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Obama leads by 9 pts 51-42. Obama has led in the Gallup Poll for a month straight.

Does he get extra points for that like in NASCAR?

He does get a couple cases of Budweiser.

[Joemailman]

There are a number of myths that are perpetrated when discussing the abortion issue. One is that overturning Roe v. Wade would outlaw all abortions in this country. It would not. It would be a state by state situation. Another is that if you elect Republicans to the Presidency, they will appoint justices who will overturn Roe v. Wade. Since the RVW decision was handed down, 12 new justices have been appointed to the Supreme Court. Nine of those by Republicans. Yet RVW is still the law of the land. Yet another is that McCain wants to outlaw abortions in this country. In the third debate with Obama, McCain said this on RVW: MCCAIN: I thought it was a bad decision. I think there were a lot of decisions that were bad. I think that decisions should rest in the hands of the states. Saying that the decision should rest with the states is a long way from the goal many Conservatives have of outlawing abortion completely.

The problem with the anti-abortion movement is that that they put the cart before the horse. I don't think you can outlaw abortion when half the country thinks it should be legal. What needs to be done first is to convince the vast majority of Americans (at least 75%) that legalized abortion is wrong. Only then can you hope to outlaw it. However, no President, Democratic or Republican, has tried to use the office of the President to change minds on abortion. However, once again millions of Americans will again vote for a Republican for President because of theeir misguided belief that he wants to outlaw abortion in this country. If McCain is then elected, you won't hear him discuss it, just as Bush doesn't discuss it.

[MJZiggy]

One is that overturning Roe v. Wade would outlaw all abortions in this country. It would not. It would be a state by state situation. Another is that if you elect Republicans to the Presidency, they will appoint justices who will overturn Roe v. Wade. Since the RVW decision was handed down, 12 new justices have been appointed to the Supreme Court. Nine of those by Republicans. Yet RVW is still the law of the land.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make.

[packinpatland]

IF RVW were ever overturned, and IF each state were to make it illegal, (yes, I know that's a stretch), how in the world could it be enforced and what would the penalties be?

[MJZiggy]

The other question is do you penalize the patient or the "doctor?"

Ayn, you know the best way to prevent abortion is to prevent the pregnancy in the first place, yet conservatives are typically against teaching sex ed which is how you teach kids contraception so that they don't create the baby that ends up blenderized...

[texaspackerbacker]

What is it, 40 or 50 million total by now since Roe v. Wade? Enough of those would have been voting age by 2000 and 2004 to make up the difference in the election and swing it to Gore and/or Kerry--Why would people who would otherwise have been aborted fetuses vote Dem/lib? Why does anybody vote Dem/lib? The solid majority of abortions occur among the same demographic of people who tend to vote liberal--stupid immoral trash--no offense to any chronic Dem/lib voters in the forum. You're probably exceptions to the rule :P

So while I tend to oppose abortion, I also tend to look at the big picture. Flushing all of America down the toilet of liberalism would have been worse than 40 some million dead babies--mostly from ya'all's kind of families.

Wouldn’t it be much more efficient to just find the list of the people who vote for Democrats and just kill them?

When you're right, you're right, Howard.

Remember 1964 when there was that Goldwater billboard that said "In Your Heart, You Know He's Right", and the Dems put up one right next to it that said, "Yeah, Extreme Right".

[texaspackerbacker]

If you outlaw abortions, only outlaws will have abortions.

That probably accounts for about 89.3% of the abortions now.

[mraynrand]

One is that overturning Roe v. Wade would outlaw all abortions in this country. It would not. It would be a state by state situation. Another is that if you elect Republicans to the Presidency, they will appoint justices who will overturn Roe v. Wade. Since the RVW decision was handed down, 12 new justices have been appointed to the Supreme Court. Nine of those by Republicans. Yet RVW is still the law of the land.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make.

I think you're both right about this. Most supremes honor stare decisis (stick with precedent), except notably Clarence Thomas, so RVW is unlikely to be overturned by a McCain appointee. And even if it were, most states wouldn't outlaw abortions, and even those that altered their laws would only add certain restrictions, not put through a complete ban. And as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't want that.

I think the underlying issue is so important that it is essential to convince people that human life, from conception to natural death, should be valued and protected as much as possible. I'd like to convince people not to have abortions because they see it as destructive to a human being. A good way to start is to just be honest about what an abortion is - not couch it in euphemisms and distracting language. It's ending human development. If you want a woman's right to an abortion to trump the developing life, just say so. It's almost NEVER about a woman's health, so stop calling it a health issue. And from the other side, if you want someone to have an abortion, the best way to guarantee it is to stigmatize the person so that they are more likely to end the life than keep it and put it up for adoption. Sure, an unplanned pregnancy isn't a good thing, but if you treat people like they've ruined their lives, they're going to be more likely to choose to hide it and destroy the baby. etc.

[MJZiggy]

Ayn, I know you lean conservative, but you're no sheep, so better to ask. Do you follow the party line on sex ed in schools?

[mraynrand]

Ayn, I know you lean conservative, but you're no sheep, so better to ask. Do you follow the party line on sex ed in schools?

I think they should just teach the biology and about birth control. Teaching stuff like two mommies and two daddies are the same as a mommy and daddy shouldn't be in schools. Parents should be involved in the curriculum and be able to decline.

[MJZiggy]

To me two mommies and two daddies is not sex education, but more social commentary aimed at reducing homophobia, but you're probably right--parents should be able to decide what their children are taught and if they want them homophobic, it's their kids. I think the ones who need that kind of education are the ones who actually HAVE two mommies or two daddies.

[SkinBasket]

So you're assuming all kids are homophobics by default and need re-education and rehabilitation at the taxpayer's expense?

I like to fuck goats. Where's the stories for the kids for that? I don;t want them growing up being afraid of me because I'm different.

[MJZiggy]

So you're assuming all kids are homophobics by default and need re-education and rehabilitation at the taxpayer's expense?

I like to fuck goats. Where's the stories for the kids for that? I don;t want them growing up being afraid of me because I'm different.

No, I'm saying that homophobics will teach their kids homophobia. Tolerant parents (and bars) will teach tolerance. When I say that the only kids who need education on the topic are kids with gay parents, it is so they learn how to deal with kids that are taught by homophobes.

[HowardRoark]

So you're assuming all kids are homophobics by default and need re-education and rehabilitation at the taxpayer's expense?

I like to fuck goats. Where's the stories for the kids for that? I don;t want them growing up being afraid of me because I'm different.

No, I'm saying that homophobics will teach their kids homophobia. Tolerant parents (and bars) will teach tolerance. When I say that the only kids who need education on the topic are kids with gay parents, it is so they learn how to deal with kids that are taught by homophobes.

What about the kids who who have parents who are homophobes, don't they need to be taught about the intolerance of the people who are not homophobes?

[Freak Out]

So you're assuming all kids are homophobics by default and need re-education and rehabilitation at the taxpayer's expense?

I like to fuck goats. Where's the stories for the kids for that? I don;t want them growing up being afraid of me because I'm different.

Do you wear a condom? Was it a Billy?