Students Confess To Hanging Obama in Effigy

[HowardRoark]

Is this a racial hate crime?

[mraynrand]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

If it weren't racial, then why the scholarship reference?

What do you mean? read what I wrote again. What do mean by 'racial' expand.

[mraynrand]

Is this a racial hate crime?

That reminds me of the good old days at Ogden Park. Or taking my Race and Law class at the University of Chicago.

[bobblehead]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose?

The suburban kids may not be able to do it but you can rest assured that Sarah Palin's children learned how to make a hangman's noose out of fishing line, probably at their Assembly of God church.

There's no doubt a connection to Big Oil and Haliburton in there as well.

Please go to the other thread and play my six degrees to conservative rascism...you are pretty good at this.

[th87]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

I think it's a bigger leap to say it wasn't racist, rather than it was.

Everything is in place. Like MJZ said, if it wasn't racist, why a reference to the minority program? If it was a JUST political statement, why not just leave the program out of it?

Why make it look JUST LIKE a lynching?

They teach Black History in school. EVERYONE knows what a lynching would look like.

Next, I'm expecting to hear that this took place in Oregon, and therefore cannot simulate a lynching, because lynchings only took place in the South.

So just go with the simplest explanation.

[th87]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose?

The suburban kids may not be able to do it but you can rest assured that Sarah Palin's children learned how to make a hangman's noose out of fishing line, probably at their Assembly of God church.

There's no doubt a connection to Big Oil and Haliburton in there as well.

Boy, you are a sensitive fellow.

[Kiwon]

And here we go:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008217186_webeffigy30.html

NEWBERG, Ore. — George Fox University says four students have been punished for hanging a likeness of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama from a tree on campus.

The university said in a statement today the penalties are "immediate long-term suspension and public service." The school says the four confessed to their involvement.

It says federal privacy rules prevent it from disclosing the length of the suspensions or the names of the students.

The life-size cardboard cutout, a commercial product, was hung last week with fishing line around the neck.

An official of the Christian school of about 1,800 students called the image of a black man hanged from a tree one of the most hurtful symbols of racism in American history.
___

Damn that liberal media!

Sounds like the AP. Always concerned about the little details. So what happened to 1555 students?

Gosh, this is terrible. Cardboard cutouts are being lynched! Gee, I wonder how many cutouts have died?!

Save the cutouts, kill the babies!

th87, you better start "The Cutout Defense Project" and push back against the evil Christians. First they enslave Native Americans and now they're targeting cutouts. Is there no decency left in the world?

Obama or his pal, William Ayers, can probably hook you up with some funding. It's a cause so great that you should dedicate your life to it. You must work tirelessly until every cutout in America feels safe. A federal ban on fishing line might be in order.

th87, you're a man among men. Caring, compassionate. Who will speak for the cutouts? You are their silent voice.

That's a good idea - I think I will.

th ocho-siete, have you registered your domain for "The Cutout Defense Project" yet?

How are the chants coming? - "Hey, hey, ho, ho, fishing line has got to go. Hey, hey, ho, ho, fishing line has got to go."

Come'on, you slacker, the Code Pinkers would have already formed a 501 (c)(3) political action committee by now. You know the drill, put yourself as chairman of the board and then use the donations to cover your "expenses." That's how Ayers got Obama started.

What's the first event, "Cutouts across America?" Who's the headliner? The Rev. Jesse Jackson would be perfect. He's trying to rehabilitate his image after threatening harm to Barack's testicles. (The monster! God only knows what he's done to Obama's cutout when no one was looking.)

Maybe Tyrone Bigguns could start "The Testicles Defense Project." He's into that and wouldn't mind mixing business and pleasure.

Cutouts are people too….., kind of, sort of…..well, no matter,……and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect! Organize, man! Stem the epidemic of cutout lynchings across racist America. Make Michelle proud of her country!

[mraynrand]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

I think it's a bigger leap to say it wasn't racist, rather than it was.

Everything is in place. Like MJZ said, if it wasn't racist, why a reference to the minority program? If it was a JUST political statement, why not just leave the program out of it?

Why make it look JUST LIKE a lynching?

They teach Black History in school. EVERYONE knows what a lynching would look like.

Next, I'm expecting to hear that this took place in Oregon, and therefore cannot simulate a lynching, because lynchings only took place in the South.

So just go with the simplest explanation.

The point I was trying to get Zig to address is this: Not all things racial are racist. It is possible to be against diversity and affirmative action programs without being racist, even though you can't avoid referencing race. When MLK said judge not by color of skin but content of character, he addressed race - but was he being racist?

[th87]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

I think it's a bigger leap to say it wasn't racist, rather than it was.

Everything is in place. Like MJZ said, if it wasn't racist, why a reference to the minority program? If it was a JUST political statement, why not just leave the program out of it?

Why make it look JUST LIKE a lynching?

They teach Black History in school. EVERYONE knows what a lynching would look like.

Next, I'm expecting to hear that this took place in Oregon, and therefore cannot simulate a lynching, because lynchings only took place in the South.

So just go with the simplest explanation.

The point I was trying to get Zig to address is this: Not all things racial are racist. It is possible to be against diversity and affirmative action programs without being racist, even though you can't avoid referencing race. When MLK said judge not by color of skin but content of character, he addressed race - but was he being racist?

Referencing race = not necessarily racist.

Referencing race + simulating a lynching = most probably racist.

[mraynrand]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

I think it's a bigger leap to say it wasn't racist, rather than it was.

Everything is in place. Like MJZ said, if it wasn't racist, why a reference to the minority program? If it was a JUST political statement, why not just leave the program out of it?

Why make it look JUST LIKE a lynching?

They teach Black History in school. EVERYONE knows what a lynching would look like.

Next, I'm expecting to hear that this took place in Oregon, and therefore cannot simulate a lynching, because lynchings only took place in the South.

So just go with the simplest explanation.

The point I was trying to get Zig to address is this: Not all things racial are racist. It is possible to be against diversity and affirmative action programs without being racist, even though you can't avoid referencing race. When MLK said judge not by color of skin but content of character, he addressed race - but was he being racist?

Referencing race = not necessarily racist.

Referencing race + simulating a lynching = most probably racist.

Assuming that a cardboard cutout hung up with fishing line was simulating a lynching with virtually no other evidence? = most probably racist

[th87]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

I think it's a bigger leap to say it wasn't racist, rather than it was.

Everything is in place. Like MJZ said, if it wasn't racist, why a reference to the minority program? If it was a JUST political statement, why not just leave the program out of it?

Why make it look JUST LIKE a lynching?

They teach Black History in school. EVERYONE knows what a lynching would look like.

Next, I'm expecting to hear that this took place in Oregon, and therefore cannot simulate a lynching, because lynchings only took place in the South.

So just go with the simplest explanation.

The point I was trying to get Zig to address is this: Not all things racial are racist. It is possible to be against diversity and affirmative action programs without being racist, even though you can't avoid referencing race. When MLK said judge not by color of skin but content of character, he addressed race - but was he being racist?

Referencing race = not necessarily racist.

Referencing race + simulating a lynching = most probably racist.

Assuming that a cardboard cutout hung up with fishing line was simulating a lynching with virtually no other evidence? = most probably racist

Again:

Real lynchings involved:

1. A Black victim hanged by the neck.
2. White perpetrators.
3. A tree.
4. An instrument used to hang said victim (e.g. a rope).
5. A disdain for something relating to Black people.

This act involved:

1. A likeness of a Black person hung by the neck.
2. White perpetrators.
3. A tree.
4. An instrument used to hang said victim.
5. A disdain for something relating to Black people.

The reasonable assumption is that a simulated lynching took place, based on all the parallels.

Some life lessons:

1. Discover wife naked in bed with another man = she's probably cheating.

2. See a demonstration that looks exactly like a lynching = probably a simulated lynching.

That whole "quacks like a duck" thing.

[GrnBay007]

off topic.....th87, I miss your old avatar.

[th87]

off topic.....th87, I miss your old avatar.

Haha, I do too! I gotta find that picture. And I definitely have to meet that guy.

How's everything going with you?

[mraynrand]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

I think it's a bigger leap to say it wasn't racist, rather than it was.

Everything is in place. Like MJZ said, if it wasn't racist, why a reference to the minority program? If it was a JUST political statement, why not just leave the program out of it?

Why make it look JUST LIKE a lynching?

They teach Black History in school. EVERYONE knows what a lynching would look like.

Next, I'm expecting to hear that this took place in Oregon, and therefore cannot simulate a lynching, because lynchings only took place in the South.

So just go with the simplest explanation.

The point I was trying to get Zig to address is this: Not all things racial are racist. It is possible to be against diversity and affirmative action programs without being racist, even though you can't avoid referencing race. When MLK said judge not by color of skin but content of character, he addressed race - but was he being racist?

Referencing race = not necessarily racist.

Referencing race + simulating a lynching = most probably racist.

Assuming that a cardboard cutout hung up with fishing line was simulating a lynching with virtually no other evidence? = most probably racist

Again:

Real lynchings involved:

1. A Black victim hanged by the neck.
2. White perpetrators.
3. A tree.
4. An instrument used to hang said victim (e.g. a rope).
5. A disdain for something relating to Black people.

This act involved:

1. A likeness of a Black person hung by the neck.
2. White perpetrators.
3. A tree.
4. An instrument used to hang said victim.
5. A disdain for something relating to Black people.

The reasonable assumption is that a simulated lynching took place, based on all the parallels.

Some life lessons:

1. Discover wife naked in bed with another man = she's probably cheating.

2. See a demonstration that looks exactly like a lynching = probably a simulated lynching.

That whole "quacks like a duck" thing.

Again, how do you know what it looked like. I really think you want to believe it was a lynching simulation. I think that's more revealing than anything else you've written.

[th87]

why is it so hard to see how hurtful the symbol of the noose is?

i don't even necessarily think the students should be punished, since they were expressing free speech, but i certainly think people's outrage is justified

The outrage is justified, but the assumptions are not. When is the last time you saw fishing line tied into a noose? You have a bunch of suburban white kids, probably born in 1987 or 1988, who have no clue about lynchings whatsoever - certainly no visceral connection, no connection probably to minority populations. It is what it is: a meanspirited prank observed by two students and a janitor. You've got some creepy, rude naive kids who need to be taught a lesson. But I highly doubt they had any idea about the total implications of what they'd done, except on a sensationalism level. Reading up on the incident, this seems to be the attitude of other kids at the school, including members of the Act Six program, who think the punishment matched the crime. The FBI will investigate whether there was a civil rights violation. It is their job to see if anything more serious was intended, such as threats of actual lynching. Stay tuned, I suspect they will find nothing. My guess is you have a collection of students who have really been shocked that what they saw as a prank, expanded into this huge problem. I could be wrong - these kids could be among the handful of true racists left in our younger generation - steeped in the symbolism of racial hatred by family and community, in full awareness of what they were doing and what it meant - but I doubt it.

I think it's a bigger leap to say it wasn't racist, rather than it was.

Everything is in place. Like MJZ said, if it wasn't racist, why a reference to the minority program? If it was a JUST political statement, why not just leave the program out of it?

Why make it look JUST LIKE a lynching?

They teach Black History in school. EVERYONE knows what a lynching would look like.

Next, I'm expecting to hear that this took place in Oregon, and therefore cannot simulate a lynching, because lynchings only took place in the South.

So just go with the simplest explanation.

The point I was trying to get Zig to address is this: Not all things racial are racist. It is possible to be against diversity and affirmative action programs without being racist, even though you can't avoid referencing race. When MLK said judge not by color of skin but content of character, he addressed race - but was he being racist?

Referencing race = not necessarily racist.

Referencing race + simulating a lynching = most probably racist.

Assuming that a cardboard cutout hung up with fishing line was simulating a lynching with virtually no other evidence? = most probably racist

Again:

Real lynchings involved:

1. A Black victim hanged by the neck.
2. White perpetrators.
3. A tree.
4. An instrument used to hang said victim (e.g. a rope).
5. A disdain for something relating to Black people.

This act involved:

1. A likeness of a Black person hung by the neck.
2. White perpetrators.
3. A tree.
4. An instrument used to hang said victim.
5. A disdain for something relating to Black people.

The reasonable assumption is that a simulated lynching took place, based on all the parallels.

Some life lessons:

1. Discover wife naked in bed with another man = she's probably cheating.

2. See a demonstration that looks exactly like a lynching = probably a simulated lynching.

That whole "quacks like a duck" thing.

Again, how do you know what it looked like. I really think you want to believe it was a lynching simulation. I think that's more revealing than anything else you've written.

Yeah, it reveals that I'm not going to ignore evidence in hopes of exonerating these kids. I've enumerated everything we know above. Looks suspiciously similar to a lynching.

Your intellectual dishonesty is noted though.