Proposition 8

[mraynrand]

Personally I can only hope that the Right in this country spends the next four years obsessing over homosexuality and gay adoption.

Interesting. It raises a question: Is it a concerted strategy of the left to advance some of these social issues to distract the conservatives from battles on the economic and foreign policy front? i doubt it, but it is interesting, since the 'conservative obsession' tends to be a reaction to extremism from the left. If it hadn't been for Roe v. Wade and school prayer type decisions, the 'religious right'/moral majority type groups probably wouldn't have emerged the way they did.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It was long recognized by many that restricting marriage to single races was a racist practice.

How inventive of you.

They didn't redefine marriage, they restricted it.

You're doing some fancy tap dancing this morning.

It's not my fault that you seem to know nothing about the history of anti-miscegenation laws in the U.S.

anti-miscegenation laws made interracial marriage illegal. They were never completely overturned by popular will, the Supreme Court ended them in the late 60's.

you are playing a ridiculous word game by saying that anti-miscegenation laws merely restricted marriage rather than defined marriage.

[mraynrand]

It was long recognized by many that restricting marriage to single races was a racist practice.

How inventive of you.

They didn't redefine marriage, they restricted it.

You're doing some fancy tap dancing this morning.

It's not my fault that you seem to know nothing about the history of anti-miscegenation laws in the U.S.

anti-miscegenation laws made interracial marriage illegal. They were never completely overturned by popular will, the Supreme Court ended them in the late 60's.

you are playing a ridiculous word game by saying that anti-miscegenation laws merely restricted marriage rather than defined marriage.

Not at all. The laws were passed following the Civil war in the South, repealed by Repubs, then passed again when Dems took back control. in most new states there were some misceg. laws, but in other states, including in the north there were not. It was openly contested whether blacks and whites should be allowed to marry. Eventually an activist Supreme court, improperly ruling based on the equal protection clause, supported the marriage bans. But through it all, they knew what marriage was - between a man and a women. In none of the cases was there any mention of two men or two women. That was never understood to be a form of marriage - until recently. It is a form of relationship and it is not within the government's right to prevent men and women from expression of gay behavior, but I don't think securing their freedoms requires the redefining of marriage.

[Harlan Huckleby]

why are you arguing that miscenegation had nothing to do with homosexuality? Nobody suggested that gay marriage was contemplated 50 years ago. Its simply a comparison.

You are spewing nonsense.

[texaspackerbacker]

Thank you, Harlan. I learned a new word today--miscenegation.

There is a colossal difference between homosexuality/gay marriage and miscenegation/interracial marriage. That difference is that the Christian Bible, not to mention teachings of virtually every other major and minor religion consider homosexuality a sinful and abominable behavior. Mixing of the races, on the other hand, has little or no religious foundation, Christian or otherwise.

As for those of us of the conservative persuasion being preoccupied with the gay marriage issue, I don't think so. It's more like you lefties are preoccupied that way. The status quo, after all, is still with us, as is the bulk of public opinion--based on the Prop 8 results.

Liberals can whine all they want about separation of church and state, but the fact that homosexuality is an abomination according to Christianity is NOT a church/state issue. It is a matter of the will of the majority being supreme in a democracy--representative or not. And that will clearly opposes gay marriage.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Thank you, Harlan. I learned a new word today--miscenegation.

thanks, but I can't take credit, AynRand threw out the word. (and he introduced "Quod volumus facile credimus" in another thread. )

There is a colossal difference between homosexuality/gay marriage and miscenegation/interracial marriage. That difference is that the Christian Bible, not to mention teachings of virtually every other major and minor religion consider homosexuality a sinful and abominable behavior. Mixing of the races, on the other hand, has little or no religious foundation, Christian or otherwise.

Actually, the bible was used to justify the prohibition of interracial marriage.

They seem like vastly different issues today because mixed-race marriages have become acceptable.

[mraynrand]

why are you arguing that miscenegation had nothing to do with homosexuality? Nobody suggested that gay marriage was contemplated 50 years ago. Its simply a comparison.

You are spewing nonsense.

I understand your point. I wasn't trying to say it was an issue back then. While there are some useful comparisons between gay rights issues and mixed marriages, there are also enough differences to avoid using the acceptance of interracial marriages as a justification for redefining marriage. The useful comparison to me seems to be the support for individual liberty, which allows for all freedoms for couples that want to engage in gay behaviour but doesn't necessitate corrupting language to achieve that end result.

[Fosco33]

If you watched the news, they protested the LDS church. ScottC - your take?

I don't care if they wanna get hitched or not - but messin with my commute is - well - gay.

And it's odd, because the people they impact are mostly supportive of their cause. It'd be more exciting if they protested somewhere like the OC where it'd be a little more relevant.

I drove right by the guy with the huge 'EQUAL RIGHTS' sign - then saw him on TV later. Thanks to all those whirly birds and plenty of tv coverage.

[texaspackerbacker]

Thank you, Harlan. I learned a new word today--miscenegation.

thanks, but I can't take credit, AynRand threw out the word. (and he introduced "Quod volumus facile credimus" in another thread. )

There is a colossal difference between homosexuality/gay marriage and miscenegation/interracial marriage. That difference is that the Christian Bible, not to mention teachings of virtually every other major and minor religion consider homosexuality a sinful and abominable behavior. Mixing of the races, on the other hand, has little or no religious foundation, Christian or otherwise.

Actually, the bible was used to justify the prohibition of interracial marriage.

They seem like vastly different issues today because mixed-race marriages have become acceptable.

That may be true, but unlike the "a man lying with a man--homosexuaiity--is an abomination" concept--which is clear and obvious, the anti-miscenegation materiall cited in the Bible is vague and generally unfounded.

The OTHER major difference is that people are born whatever race they are. Homosexual behavior, on the other hand, is a choice of sexual preference that the same sex ass-fuckers make.

[Harlan Huckleby]

While there are some useful comparisons between gay rights issues and mixed marriages, there are also enough differences to avoid using the acceptance of interracial marriages as a justification for redefining marriage.

I see no signficant difference. You have two adults wishing to form a family partnership in either case. At one time, it was thought to be wrong for mixed races to marry. The EXACT same arguments were made against mixed marriages as are made today against gays, and those arguments have no more validity now than they did then.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The OTHER major difference is that people are born whatever race they are. Homosexual behavior, on the other hand, is a choice of sexual preference that the same sex ass-fuckers make.

Most people who study the issue don't believe homosexuality is a choice, but rather biology.

Maybe you have some experience that indicates homosexuality is a choice. The gay people I know are just that way.

[Deputy Nutz]

These babies are found in orphanages, by the hundreds where there is simply not enough love for these kids to go around, in fact this causes attatchment dissorders, and autism is rampant.

The gay couples that I know either do above, or they are part of the foster care system and end up adopting kids that are placed in their custody. This kids usually have issues as well, autism, learning disabilities, emotional dissorders....

My argument with you is that you believe that gay couple are cutting in line stepping infront of those traditional white families for little new born infants, and it is simply not the case.

Most adoption for little white babies have to go through private means, simply because the restrictions and the waiting list is just so damn long.

A mommy and daddy would be perfect, but mommies and daddies seem to be picky and only want a certain baby that looks like them, and is perfectly healthy.

Biggest crock of shit you ever posted. You're being influenced by that nice gay couple that had you over. I'm really surprised that you are so easily influenced by a coupla ass fucking brain washers.

There is no shortage of "love to go around" with heteros. and your claim that mommy and daddy want adoptive kids to look "just like them" is totally absurd.

I can't speak for the USA, but in this country, poofters ARE stepping in line on adoptions and I find that revolting.

Again, if you are a poof, good luck to you. I'll be your friend, but if you try and adopt my son or daughter I will haunt you from my grave.

I think everything that comes out of your mouth about this subject is a crock of fucking shit, so next time you want to offend some of my dearest friends you can go ahead and drink your self to death as far as I am concerned. I thought you would have a little more respect for at least me, but whatever.

What the fuck would I want with one of your fucking kids? Hopefully your a better fucking parent than some of this people with kids that have to be put in foster homes because the neglect is something that will make you puke. And the only thing you can be concerned about is a man sticking his cock in another man's asshole.

Grow the fuck up.

[MJZiggy]

These babies are found in orphanages, by the hundreds where there is simply not enough love for these kids to go around, in fact this causes attatchment dissorders, and autism is rampant.

The gay couples that I know either do above, or they are part of the foster care system and end up adopting kids that are placed in their custody. This kids usually have issues as well, autism, learning disabilities, emotional dissorders....

My argument with you is that you believe that gay couple are cutting in line stepping infront of those traditional white families for little new born infants, and it is simply not the case.

Most adoption for little white babies have to go through private means, simply because the restrictions and the waiting list is just so damn long.

A mommy and daddy would be perfect, but mommies and daddies seem to be picky and only want a certain baby that looks like them, and is perfectly healthy.

Biggest crock of shit you ever posted. You're being influenced by that nice gay couple that had you over. I'm really surprised that you are so easily influenced by a coupla ass fucking brain washers.

There is no shortage of "love to go around" with heteros. and your claim that mommy and daddy want adoptive kids to look "just like them" is totally absurd.

I can't speak for the USA, but in this country, poofters ARE stepping in line on adoptions and I find that revolting.

Again, if you are a poof, good luck to you. I'll be your friend, but if you try and adopt my son or daughter I will haunt you from my grave.

Actually, Tar, in this county at least, he's right. Before a certain young gentleman was born his parents planned to adopt. There are a ton of kids available for adoption, unless you're looking for a healthy white infant. Then you can forget it and it is now normal practice to leave it up to the birth mother to choose who gets her baby. You can do an overseas adoption from an orphanage, but the kids are a year or two old by the time you get through the red tape. And then you have to start doing the research on the psychological problems, and there are usually physical problems as well.

[LEWCWA]

Gun, I am not arguing the pro's and cons of the proposition in my reply to you. i am merely challenging your position that people shouldn't expect personal preferences/ opinions to become law. Laws have a habit of stemming from opinions...

()But laws that apply to everyone shouldn't be made out of personal opinions. The question is whether or not gay marriage should be allowed by law. If you think it's gross, you are entitled to that opinion but you shouldn't expect the government to pass a law saying such unions are illegal just because some people think it's gross. Just the same, I respect your opinion and your right to have it even though I disagree. As far as the law is concerned, this should be a non issue because there is nothing about it that would warrant a legal ban. "I think it's gross" is not legal justification for an outright ban. Wouldn't you agree?

and there is the big problem. Legislating opinion! This is how we get into trouble, like slavery, segregation, etc......Just because I hate DOGS, doesn't mean we should ban them.....Just because I hate blacks doesn't mean they should be slaves......

[Tarlam!]

These babies are found in orphanages, by the hundreds where there is simply not enough love for these kids to go around, in fact this causes attatchment dissorders, and autism is rampant.

The gay couples that I know either do above, or they are part of the foster care system and end up adopting kids that are placed in their custody. This kids usually have issues as well, autism, learning disabilities, emotional dissorders....

My argument with you is that you believe that gay couple are cutting in line stepping infront of those traditional white families for little new born infants, and it is simply not the case.

Most adoption for little white babies have to go through private means, simply because the restrictions and the waiting list is just so damn long.

A mommy and daddy would be perfect, but mommies and daddies seem to be picky and only want a certain baby that looks like them, and is perfectly healthy.

Biggest crock of shit you ever posted. You're being influenced by that nice gay couple that had you over. I'm really surprised that you are so easily influenced by a coupla ass fucking brain washers.

There is no shortage of "love to go around" with heteros. and your claim that mommy and daddy want adoptive kids to look "just like them" is totally absurd.

I can't speak for the USA, but in this country, poofters ARE stepping in line on adoptions and I find that revolting.

Again, if you are a poof, good luck to you. I'll be your friend, but if you try and adopt my son or daughter I will haunt you from my grave.

I think everything that comes out of your mouth about this subject is a crock of fucking shit, so next time you want to offend some of my dearest friends you can go ahead and drink your self to death as far as I am concerned. I thought you would have a little more respect for at least me, but whatever.

What the fuck would I want with one of your fucking kids? Hopefully your a better fucking parent than some of this people with kids that have to be put in foster homes because the neglect is something that will make you puke. And the only thing you can be concerned about is a man sticking his cock in another man's asshole.

Grow the fuck up.

I offended your dearest friends by calling them ass-fuckers? OK. Sorry. But, that's what they are. And sorry, but I attacked your position, not you or your ass-fucking friends, which you didn't defend in your tirade.

It was my mistake to not write "If one is a Poofter and one wants to adopt my kids". You took that it to mean "you", when indeed I meant "one" I apologize for that.

You point out the key issue and that is, hetero couples need educatrion on raising foster kids and my belief is, that should be a priority over giving ass-fuckers adoptions. Hey, but that's just me.

BTW, I have a lot of gay friends and I call them ass-fuckers and they find it "charmin". (bullshit they do, but heck, I'm homophobic. I'm still in the majority)

And, if you think I don't respect you, well, then, you are a fucking idiot. You are a dear, valued friend to me. I just happen to feel you have been brainwashed on this subject, much the same way the love of my life has been. I still want to marry her and I still hope we are mates.